Posted on 10/08/2008 7:21:40 AM PDT by GodGunsGuts
It’s Fun Seeing Evolution Falsified
Oct 8, 2008 — “Mysterious Snippets Of DNA Withstand Eons Of Evolution” is the strange title of an article on Science Daily. Gill Bejerano and Cory McLean from Stanford are wondering why large non-coding sections of DNA are very similar, or “ultraconserved,” from mice to man. Evolutionary theory would expect that non-functional genetic material would mutate more rapidly than genes. Yet for unknown reasons, the ultraconserved segments stay the same throughout the mammal order. Experiments have shown that mice with these sections deleted do just fine. Why would natural selection purify these regions if they are not essential for survival?...
(Excerpt) Read more at creationsafaris.com ...
No, it theory the random mutant would be across the the entire span of genetic material.
And, it theory, of the functioning genes that mutant, only the "winning" mutant would survive and be passed on the "losing" mutant would not survive and not be passed on
But in the non-functioning genes there is no impact from mutation (no "winning" or"losing") so all non-functioning mutation's survive and are passed on
"Not obvious" is truly an understatement. It is assumed because of a theory. Again you seem to fail to realize that only natural selection keeps errors in check according to Darwin. The high degree of conservation is not explained. It is "supposed" away. For the moment, "not obvious" and none are equivalent.
Biologist aren't going to ignore a hundred thousand good examples of the linkage between function and conservation between species just because one highly conserved regulatory sequence has, so far, not produced a phenotype when removed.
Well, classical physicists were convinced they had all the answers and the nagging little questions were just nuisances. They were wrong.
P.S. This is not just one sequence.
There are 481 segments longer than 200 base pairs (bp) that are absolutely conserved (100% identity with no insertions or deletions) between orthologous regions of the human, rat, and mouse genomes. Nearly all of these segments are also conserved in the chicken and dog genomes, with an average of 95 and 99% identity, respectively. Many are also significantly conserved in fish. These ultraconserved elements of the human genome are most often located either overlapping exons in genes involved in RNA processing or in introns or nearby genes involved in the regulation of transcription and development. Along with more than 5000 sequences of over 100 bp that are absolutely conserved among the three sequenced mammals, these represent a class of genetic elements whose functions and evolutionary origins are yet to be determined, but which are more highly conserved between these species than are proteins and appear to be essential for the ontogeny of mammals and other vertebrates.
See. GGG can read and understand.
Do you think Armenian Orthodox are Catholic or Protestant GGG? Why the facination with my religion. What cult or church do you go to?
Salvation Army. Your turn.
The authors do not find any contradiction between their data and common descent. In fact their data confirms the nested hierarchies of commonality and divergence between primate species. Their last words....”evolution and function”.
Do you think you know more about their data than they do?
Their conclusion...
http://www.niob.knaw.nl/researchpages/cuppen/publications/berezikov_NG_human_chimp.pdf
Although the physiological relevance of miRNAs expressed at low levels remains to be shown, it is tempting to speculate that a pool of such miRNAs may contribute to the diversity of developmental programs and cellular processes and thus provide evolution’s playground for the development of new miRNA-containing regulatory pathways. For example, miRNAs recently have been implicated in synaptic development13 and in memory formation14. As the speciesspecific miRNAs described here are expressed in the brain, which is the most complex tissue in the human body, with an estimated 10,000 different cell types15, these miRNAs could have a role in establishing or maintaining cellular diversity and could thereby contribute to the differences in human and chimpanzee brain evolution and function.
“A computing cell.” AndrewC
How does a “computing cell” allow for divergence of some DNA and conservation of other DNA? What mechanism allows for it, and why would it desire such, and how would it “know” what sequences are present in other species to allow for this conservation of sequence?
If a “computing cell” is the answer to evolution why then do the majority of cells die under extreme selective pressure while only a small minority with the genetic variation needed survive?
Some cells are better computers than others?
So do you think Armenian Orthodox are Catholic or Protestant GGG?
==I bet they clothe you well GGG.
Why am I not surprised that you would make fun of Christians who follow Christ’s command to feed and clothe the homeless.
==So do you think Armenian Orthodox are Catholic or Protestant GGG?
Why don’t you tell me, Allmendream. There isn’t much about the Armenian Orthodox church on the Internet. So far, all I have learned is that they have theological differences with Catholics and Protestants with respect to the Trinity, and that they do not “insist on the innerancy of scripture.” (Which might explain your tolerance for materialist religious movements, like the one founded by Charles Darwin).
So why did you stop attending the Armenian Orthodox Church, Allmendream? Did they start feeding and clothing the homeless or something? What Church do you attend now?
==I bet they clothe you well GGG.
Why am I not surprised that you would make fun of Christians who follow Christ’s command to feed and clothe the homeless.
==So do you think Armenian Orthodox are Catholic or Protestant GGG?
Why don’t you tell me, Allmendream. There isn’t much about the Armenian Orthodox church on the Internet. So far, all I have learned is that they have theological differences with Catholics and Protestants with respect to the Trinity, and that they do not “insist on the innerancy of scripture.” (Which might explain your tolerance for materialist religious movements, like the one founded by Charles Darwin).
So why did you stop attending the Armenian Orthodox Church, Allmendream? Did they start feeding and clothing the homeless or something? What Church do you attend now?
==I bet they clothe you well GGG.
Why am I not surprised that you would make fun of Christians who follow Christ’s command to feed and clothe the homeless.
==So do you think Armenian Orthodox are Catholic or Protestant GGG?
Why don’t you tell me, Allmendream. There isn’t much about the Armenian Orthodox church on the Internet. So far, all I have learned is that they have theological differences with Catholics and Protestants with respect to the Trinity, and that they do not “insist on the innerancy of scripture.” (Which might explain your tolerance for materialist religious movements, like the one founded by Charles Darwin).
So why did you stop attending the Armenian Orthodox Church, Allmendream? Did they start feeding and clothing the homeless or something? What Church do you attend now?
Look at a memory dump of any operating computer and then compare it to another like computer running similar programs. You'll see all of the above.
Your abject ignorance of history and the history of Christianity is duly noted. Christians are not all divisible between Catholic and Protestant, making your question quite ridiculous as it is not applicable.
Your analogy isn't an explanation, it is an analogy. Nor would it explain the differential reproductive success of cells with genetic differences leading to the majority being selected against by a pressure and dying (was that just part of their program?) and the minority that had some antibiotic or other stress relieving variation surviving.
Your simplistic analogy doesn’t explain anything.
Let us look at the “programs” the cell runs in response to stress. A bacterial cell under stress as part of its stress response, upregulates error prone DNA polymerase, and downregulates mutation repair enzymes. This has the effect of increasing mutation, thus increasing genetic variation, thus increasing the chance that some genetic variety will be able to overcome the stress.
It seems the “computing cell” operates its “programming” to maximize genetic variation during stress in order to overcome selective pressure.
This “programming” would also explain why some sequences are highly variable and others almost unchanged. Any changes that disable a critical genetic sequence are eliminated from the population, while any changes to DNA with no function can persist within a population.
A simple elegant explanation for the linkage between DNA conservation among species and function.
What explanation does a “computing cell” analogy contain for this phenomenon?
The rest of your dismissive post ignored.
Read James Shapiro.
A 21st Century View of evolution
HOW DOES THE GENOME FIT IN THE INFORMATION ECONOMY OF THE CELL?
The genome is the long-term storage medium for each species (much like a computer hard disk) and consists of
the total information content of the DNA molecules in the cells of that species. Although most genomics researchers
focus on the "coding" regions of the genome that determine the proteins a species can synthesize, genomes are built up
of protein-coding and other classes of DNA sequences that are combinatorially formatted to carry out the multiple
tasks necessary for overall genome function (Table II). While textbooks call the triplet code for amino acids in
proteins "the genetic code," there are in fact many genetic codes for the different aspects of genome coding,
packaging, replication, distribution, repair and evolution.
Table II. Different classes of genomic information
� Coding sequences for RNA and protein molecules
� Start and stop sites for transcription
� Processing signals for primary transcripts
� Control signals for level of expression
� Control signals for dynamic access at right time and place. Identifiers for coding sequences that must be
coordinately or sequentially expressed.
� Signals for chromatin condensation/chromatin remodeling
� Signals for DNA replication
� Signals for distribution to daughter cells (non-
random chromosome partitioning)
� Signals for error correction and damage repair
� Signals for reprogramming when necessary
Specific references can be found in refs. 1, 2, 10, and 11.
An absolutely fundamental point to appreciate is that genomes only function through interaction with other
dynamic information systems in the cell. By itself, DNA is inert. The information stored in DNA molecules requires
interpretation by the highly dynamic cellular systems that control DNA packaging, imprinting, replication,
transcription, translation, splicing, signal transduction, morphogenesis, and so forth. The significance of these
essential interactions is that the genome necessarily constitutes part of a computational system in every living
cell. The character of an organism is not determined solely by its genome. For example, in species with complex life-
cycles, the same genome encodes two quite distinct organisms, such as the caterpillar and butterfly. We also
see the cell-dependent nature of genome function in mammalian cloning, where a nucleus is removed from one
terminally differentiated cell type that is capable only of a highly restricted range of genome expression and inserted
into an egg cell, where the genome can provide the stored information for embryonic development and occasionally
encode the formation of a normal individual (12, 13).
CELLULAR COMPUTATION AND GENOME SYSTEM ARCHITECTURE
There are many ways to visualize the systemic nature of genomic coding. One that is discussed in other parts of these PROCEEDINGS is the organization of protein
molecules as systems of discrete structural and functional domains encoded in evolutionarily mobile DNA modules (14;
these PROCEEDINGS, Symposia B6 and B7). Here we will examine the basic principles of gene expression and
transcriptional regulation and the evolution of our one-dimensional concept of the gene into the more complex
notion of a genetic locus.
The lac operon: A simple but illustrative example
...
Nothing in there explains any of my questions.
Why do the majority of cells subjected to stress die if they all contain the equivalent capacity to adapt as “cellular computers”?
Why is survival based upon adaptive genetic variation?
Why does the stress response of a bacterial cell increase mutation to increase genetic variation?
How does the cell being a “computer” explain the nested hierarchies of similarity and divergence in species that makes it look as if they have a common ancestor?
Nothing in that addresses any of these issues.
Although I previously stated that I ignored the rest of your post, I have changed my mind on this one.
You better have your memory checked.
Living things all die. And I know you didn't read the article. So read it.
Your dodge about “living things all die” doesn't explain how, if all cells contain equal capacity to adapt, the majority subjected to stress die, and only those with a particular genetic variation survive to reproduce cells that will survive to reproduce.
You refuse to read the article. Read it.
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