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To: TASMANIANRED
I'm on the medical end....also.

Again here's what you said:

Having a living will is an invitation for a hospital or nursing home to neglect you to death.

A living will or advanced directive can say many different things...so my statement stands.

And personally I haven't seen people get neglected because they had one.

My treatment is the same...UNLESS they have specifically directed their care to NOT have certain things done to them..ie: No PEG, no TPN, no intubation, no CPR....etc..etc..

But, just because someone is a DNR...doesn't mean we don't "do" everything else.

Yes, I know some health care workers think a bit like that....but they are in error.

29 posted on 08/20/2008 6:49:50 AM PDT by Osage Orange (Congress would steal the nickels off a dead man's eye's...............)
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To: Osage Orange
You are dealing with a dual issue and you are only seeing one side of it.

From the MD perspective..You have a relationship with a patient. You have explored the wishes of a patient with regard to ordinary and extra ordinary care.

On the other end of things is reality. The population of nurses is getting older. The number of nurses that know intrinsically and morally that DNR is not equal to no care is diminishing daily.

It has been 30 plus years since Rowe/v Wade. The nurses replacing the old timers have been acculturated into some lives being expendable.

When I was in nursing supervision, I had to snatch a few young nurses aside for little talks. One in particular announced when walking into the unit..”What is this DNR doing in my unit, get them out of here”.

The problem is not the orders...The problem is the attitude.

I have seen it more times than I can count...Early signs of CHF are ignored, unless you have a family member out at the desk being a squeaky wheel, the doctor doesn't get called.

SVT gets ignored. Someone gets a dose of pain meds instead of calling the doctor when there is chest pain.

I agree that the concept of “No care” is a grave error but the battle over attitude has already been lost.

I testified in front of a State Legislature commission a number of years ago on elder issues. The whole day was filled with back to back stories of elder neglect in hospitals and the DNR issue came up over and over.

It's the law of unintended consequences and it has had and will continue to have an impact.

30 posted on 08/20/2008 3:29:46 PM PDT by TASMANIANRED (TAZ:Untamed, Unpredictable, Uninhibited.)
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