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"Combat" is More Than a Word
VetVoice.com ^ | Wed Jul 30, 2008 | Thurman Hart

Posted on 07/31/2008 4:30:10 AM PDT by Calpernia

(What makes someone a "decorated combat veteran?" Thurman Hart puts the question to us framed within the drama of a New Jersey Congressional race. From the diaries - promoted by Brandon Friedman)

I don't usually make a huge deal out of my six years of service in the US Navy. I went in when I was eighteen, spent four years as an electrician on the USS Saipan, and got out. I have a box on a shelf where I keep some spare bits of cloth and metal that the Navy gave me for various things, but it's really not a big deal. But, from time to time, something happens that really hits me--as a veteran. Those of us who have worn a uniform know how misleading a lot of military jargon is. "Friendly fire," of course, isn't friendly at all. And the majority of people who serve in a "combat zone" do not actually experience combat.

So I took interest when I saw Republican candidate Chris Myers repeatedly identify himself as a "decorated combat veteran". Like me, Myers is a Navy vet. And--I don't think I'm breaking major news here--Navy personnel generally have a fairly low chance of engaging in direct combat. This is especially true when compared to the Marine Corps and Army.

So I did some checking. Mr. Myers served aboard the USS Bunker Hill during Desert Shield/Storm. His claim of being seasoned by combat appears to be tied to the award of the Combat Action Ribbon to his ship. But, as I discovered, the award was given under a waiver of the traditional definition of "combat". Basically, to get the Combat Action Ribbon, his ship should have had to take damage from the mines in the area where it operated - as the Tripoli and Princeton did. Myers has claimed that the Bunker Hill had several "near misses" - but I don't recall awards being given for "almost being in combat". Hence, the waiver.

The other claim of combat comes from the V designor on his Navy Commendation Medal. Normally referred to as a "combat V", it is given for particularly valiant or notable service in combat. The award letter notes that Mr. Myers was responsible, in effect, for air traffic control during ground operations (combat). The Bunker Hill fired twenty-four missiles in support of the ground troops.

Again, this is not the traditional understanding of naval combat. It is, technically, a "combat support" operation. Words matter.

It doesn't mean that Mr. Myers didn't serve honorably. He did. It doesn't mean that he is lying about his awards. He isn't. But it does mean that he has the experience to know that he was not in combat and is chosing to inflate the public perception of his resume by misrepresenting his experience.

I believe that all veterans, even those such as myself who were never in combat, should be honored for the service they have given. After all, if I had been called on to enter combat while in uniform, I would have. But we should be satisfied with the honor we deserve, and those whose lives were endangered by direct enemy fire, in my opinion, deserve an extra measure of respect - as do those who have been injured in battle, those who were killed in action, and prisoners of war.

It is not denigrating other service to say that the sacrifices called for by these experiences require more than the normal measure of honor. It is merely stating what should be obvious. "Combat" means actual combat. At least, it should.

Since Mr. Myers has nothing else upon which to base his campaign, he reacted strongly. He sent out a press release and held a press conference attacking me for pointing out that he was stretching the public record.

Mr. Myers claimed that I was trying to "swiftboat" him. That group, however, claimed that the official record of John Kerry's service was somehow falsified. I claim the official record is right, but Myers doesn't want the whole thing to be known. But, since he brought it up, there is no record of him condemning the Swiftboat Lyers for their actions.

He has also claimed that I was "coordinated" with his opponent, who is not a veteran. When asked for substantiation of this serious charge, he simply said, "I have no proof of it." The truth is that I left the military because I don't like to take orders - not even from someone I hope wins office. I am not working for anyone.

Throughout the whole thing, Mr. Myers has denounced me as a "liberal blogger" while finding a way to neglect mentioning that I am a veteran and my ship even spent several months operating in the same waters as the Bunker Hill. As a result of his strategic omissions, and of his coordinated email efforts, commenters in serveral local newspapers have derided me as a crack-pot who doesn't know anything (here and here, for examples). To me, this is simply more of the same old GOP gameplan of running a veteran (me) - except this time it is a veteran who is doing it.

Is it a fine hair to split? I suppose so. But it is an important one. We all know that American voters love a veteran - and they tend to turn off their filters when someone claims veteran status. Those of us who know the difference have to stand up to protect those who have and are currently serving in combat. But we also have to speak up and protect the voters from a politically ambitious cynic who is more concerned with winning an election than with telling the truth about his service. Myers hopes that this will make people forget that he said that the important thing in Iraq is to make it "look like we've won".

If it is not a hair worth splitting; then why put so much effort into destroying my public reputation? If it is a hair worth splitting; then why raise a fuss when a person insists that the public record should be told in its entirety?

If you feel strongly enough about this, you can pass a donation along to Myers' opponent, State Senator John Adler. If you think I'm wrong, you're certainly free to say so. That is, after all, one of the reasons all of us wore the uniforms that we did.


TOPICS: Local News; Military/Veterans; Politics
KEYWORDS: 3d; chrismyers; elections; newjersey
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To: HIDEK6

Explain?


21 posted on 07/31/2008 6:09:40 AM PDT by Calpernia (Hunters Rangers - Raising the Bar of Integrity http://www.barofintegrity.us)
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To: Hootowl

Perhaps this is where you and I will disagree. I volunteered for the Navy, (’88-’92). I went where assigned, and did my duties as best I can. I was assigned as a direct support person to various commands (Ships and Shore), but was not deployed into the Persian Gulf. I received no medals or awards (other than the National Defense Ribbon). If I had been assigned those duties, I would have gone - as was my oath.

We don’t pick and choose our assignments - we do them all with the single-mindedness that it deserves. If I was a screw-up, and took someone off the front lines to be in the rear-with-the-gear as I was, that would be a disservice. Doing my job, as assigned, to the best of my ability and allowing those assigned to the front lines to do their jobs is in no way deserving of more RESPECT.

Frankly, I realize I ‘missed’ an opportunity, and I actually look back on it with regret. I also know that I did what I volunteered for, and was subsequently asked to do. The things I worked with are in widespread use today, and while I will never see any public, or private, recognition for it, I PERSONALLY recognize the contributions I made to the service(s). Respect the decision of the volunteer, whether they end up in Iraq, Afghanistan, or sitting on a cruiser. Whether they spend 3 years at sea, or 3 days. They did MORE than was required, and they did it with pride, and the only thing that matters - self-respect.

CTT3
NCTS NAVRADRECFAC San Diego
Classic Coyote/Nomad/PL-1


22 posted on 07/31/2008 6:39:18 AM PDT by Ro_Thunder ("Other than ending SLAVERY, FASCISM, NAZISM and COMMUNISM, war has never solved anything")
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To: Old Teufel Hunden
you know, I'm going to get flamed for this but I think the "battle hardened" combat for whatever office is mainly used in the wrong way.

It's like being lucky enough to survive in combat somehow gives you the right to get into congress, senate or the Presidency.

That's a crock.

What I think bravery in combat shows is CHARACTER.

Now since "character" doesn't matter to democrats, only how you "feel" about things....well they shouldn't ever use a combat veteran for poster boys.

The ability to suppress the overwhelming fear and do your job in order that your men and yourself survive and accomplish a mission shows "character". To do so with no fanfare and a "you're welcome" after a thank you from others is what I'm talking about.

There are 3 guys I knew on a fire team that held a right flank that should be the President, speaker of the House and Senate majority leader if combat were prerequisites for public office. Instead of picking shrapnel out of themselves, drinking some beer and laughing about how lucky they were to be alive.

Instead we're going to see JAG lawyers, NCIS investigators, rump kissing REMF and guys like this squid throwing combat ribbons around like coupons in order to "cash in" on the great election giveaways.

Bravest guy I knew was one of my uncles who was a conscientious objector during the Vietnam war due to his inability to kill someone. He became a Navy corpsman and saw 2 tours in country up close and more combat than most of us.

Did his duty, served his country, saved lives and came home raised a family and didn't make a big deal about what he did. Of course having 6 other brothers that were in the armed forces made bragging about anything a little difficult.

I'm always wary about guys that make a big deal about their war exploits. Most of the meat eaters I knew were actually quiet guys. They didn't have to prove anything..... they already did. Heck , look at Audie Murphy and Carlos Hathcock.... fairly level headed and quiet guys, but if I was going outside looking for bad guys, I'd like them with me.

23 posted on 07/31/2008 7:24:03 AM PDT by Dick Vomer (liberals suck....... but it depends on what your definition of the word "suck" is.,)
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To: Calpernia

A common liberal attitude is that military medals are “bits of cloth and metal.”


24 posted on 07/31/2008 7:29:56 AM PDT by HIDEK6
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To: Dick Vomer
"Bravest guy I knew was one of my uncles who was a conscientious objector during the Vietnam war due to his inability to kill someone. He became a Navy corpsman and saw 2 tours in country up close and more combat than most of us."

We had a corpsman in my company who was a CO - he did everything the rest of us did but did not carry a weapon.
25 posted on 07/31/2008 7:34:32 AM PDT by ConorMacNessa (HM/2 USN, 3/5 Marines, RVN 1969. St. Peregrine, patron saint of cancer patients, pray for us.)
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To: HIDEK6

I didn’t know that. Thanks.

Thurman Hart does lean left.

But, his point is valid and actually understated about Chris Myers.

And since Chris Myers has been investigating us political blog sites with the FCC, FEC and threatening with IRS action, I would advise to cut Mr. Hart a little wiggle room.

This is a local political race; but Myers actions can have a National impact.


26 posted on 07/31/2008 7:36:28 AM PDT by Calpernia (Hunters Rangers - Raising the Bar of Integrity http://www.barofintegrity.us)
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To: Dick Vomer
Personally, I have no problem with what you said.

"Bravest guy I knew was one of my uncles who was a conscientious objector during the Vietnam war due to his inability to kill someone. He became a Navy corpsman and saw 2 tours in country up close and more combat than most of us."

Lou Ayers, actor who was famous for starring in All's Quiet on the Western Front did the exact same thing. He saw extensive combat in the reconquest of the Phillipines against the Japanese. Only difference is he was a medic. Believe me, corpsmen who serve with the Marines are more like the Marines than they are the Navy. In fact, the only people allowed to be full members in the Marine Corps League are Marines and Navy personnel who served with the Marines. The vast majority of those are corpsmen.

To me, military service and service in combat are criteria when weighing who to vote for, but not the only factor. If it were, then I would have voted for the Viet Nam veterans Al Gore and John Kerry over George Bush in the last two presidential elections.

I agree with what you said about combat and bravery. It reveals a persons character, but just because you have never been tested in that way does not mean that you have any less character. Take for instance Bill Fritsch, former Senate majority leader. While I thought he was a little milquetoast as the majority leader I do admire his character. He is a doctor who still as a Senator would go once a year (on his own vacation time) to impoverished countries in Africa to help people with medical care. He did it without fanfare and a lot of people don't even know about it. To me, that also shows great character.
27 posted on 07/31/2008 7:44:17 AM PDT by Old Teufel Hunden
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To: Old Teufel Hunden

Just a Tidbit

The government uses tour routes to place doctors in rural areas. It is categorized as service. Doctors sign up and the gov sends you a list of where you will be rotated into and for designated lengths of time.

We did that regionally, CONUS. But they do have international routes too. Might be what Mr. Fritsch signed onto.


28 posted on 07/31/2008 7:52:01 AM PDT by Calpernia (Hunters Rangers - Raising the Bar of Integrity http://www.barofintegrity.us)
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To: Calpernia

So what you are saying is that there is a program where Doctors volunteer their medical service and provide free medical care to people in rural areas in the U.S.? If so, thanks for doing that. I’m sure it helped out a lot of people.


29 posted on 07/31/2008 7:58:12 AM PDT by Old Teufel Hunden
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To: Old Teufel Hunden

Not exactly. The doctors are paid for their service. When you sign onto the program, you sign onto a timeframe. You pick where you would like to go. That is not guaranteed. That can be changed if the government needs you elsewhere. But you are locked into the amount of years you sign on for.

We did it for 5 years. There were other combinations too. I just don’t remember because that was years ago. But, we could have been deployed overseas if we were still in during the WOT.


30 posted on 07/31/2008 8:04:16 AM PDT by Calpernia (Hunters Rangers - Raising the Bar of Integrity http://www.barofintegrity.us)
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To: Old Teufel Hunden

You meant Former Senator Frist, correct?

It looks like he was one of the people that set up/involved/supported the Rural Medical Services programs we were in.


31 posted on 07/31/2008 8:16:21 AM PDT by Calpernia (Hunters Rangers - Raising the Bar of Integrity http://www.barofintegrity.us)
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To: Calpernia

I didn’t receive any “Combat Action Ribbons” while I was in the USAF, but that doesn’t mean I was never in hostile situations in third-world ratholes. A person is still a veteran whether he or she braved machine gun fire, rescued downed aircrew, tended the sick/wounded or dug latrines.


32 posted on 07/31/2008 8:22:43 AM PDT by CholeraJoe ("I ain't freaking, I ain't faking it. Shu' up and let me go!")
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To: CholeraJoe

Mr. Hart clarified that in his editorial posted.


33 posted on 07/31/2008 8:26:48 AM PDT by Calpernia (Hunters Rangers - Raising the Bar of Integrity http://www.barofintegrity.us)
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To: Dick Vomer; ConorMacNessa

http://www.medalofhonor.com/DesmondDoss1.htm


34 posted on 07/31/2008 8:40:11 AM PDT by mad_as_he$$ (Constantly choosing the lesser of two evils is still choosing evil.)
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To: HIDEK6

Not at all a red flag. My father was a decorated WWII combat veteran. He never talked much about his service and he kept his medals in a box in the closet. I don’t think that is uncommon.


35 posted on 07/31/2008 1:13:41 PM PDT by Scarlet Pimpernel
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To: Scarlet Pimpernel

The red flag is the snide reference to “bits of cloth and metal.”


36 posted on 07/31/2008 1:19:57 PM PDT by HIDEK6
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To: HIDEK6

Again, I don’t think my father would have thought much differently about his medals. He cared enough to keep them around, but not enough to put them on display or store them carefully or talk much about them. The one time I remember his talking about them he joked about how he was awarded his Purple Heart.


37 posted on 07/31/2008 2:02:27 PM PDT by Scarlet Pimpernel
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To: Scarlet Pimpernel
Again.

The reason for the red flag was not that a person didn't want to talk about his decorations, it was because he referred to them in a particulary derogatory way.

That particular reference to "bits of cloth and metal" is designed to show one's disregard for the decoration and to make an argument as to their worthlessness.

Hence the red flag.

38 posted on 07/31/2008 3:37:24 PM PDT by HIDEK6
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The stick cartoon is way too funny. Probably more funny if you have met Chris Myers.

Series posted at BlueJersey.com


39 posted on 08/01/2008 8:21:16 AM PDT by Calpernia (Hunters Rangers - Raising the Bar of Integrity http://www.barofintegrity.us)
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