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To: Raycpa
1409. Children born out of wedlock

When was that amendment passed?

If the amendment was made after Obama's birth, then he might be considered a "Citizen at birth," if he was born in Kenya, but he would not be a Natural Born Citizen.

In order to be a "Natural Born Citizen" you must have been born a Citizen and not made a citizen by legislative fiat. Congress does have the power to make anyone a citizen, or even a "citizen at birth", but they do not have the power to make a "Natural Born Citizen" out of a person who was not a citizen at the time of his birth.

802 posted on 07/04/2008 9:31:04 AM PDT by P-Marlowe (LPFOKETT GAHCOEEP-w/o*)
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To: P-Marlowe
Congress does have the power to make anyone a citizen, or even a "citizen at birth", but they do not have the power to make a "Natural Born Citizen" out of a person who was not a citizen at the time of his birth.

And your basis for that claim is...?

Section 1401 deals with citizens by birth...and those citizens are natural-born citizens, as opposed to those who have to be naturalized.

817 posted on 07/04/2008 9:54:50 AM PDT by Gondring (I'll give up my right to die when hell freezes over my dead body!)
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To: P-Marlowe; Raycpa
1409. Children born out of wedlock

When was that amendment passed?

If the amendment was made after Obama's birth, then he might be considered a "Citizen at birth," if he was born in Kenya, but he would not be a Natural Born Citizen.

In order to be a "Natural Born Citizen" you must have been born a Citizen and not made a citizen by legislative fiat. Congress does have the power to make anyone a citizen, or even a "citizen at birth", but they do not have the power to make a "Natural Born Citizen" out of a person who was not a citizen at the time of his birth.

Raycpa raises the issue of Sec. 1409 which provides on its face for citizenship for certain persons born out of wedlock and outside the US to at least one US parent. A complete answer is set out on my legal analysis thread Friday morning. However Marlowe is correct again on the answer but a summary of the technical is here.

The actual effective date is found in the effective date notes under 8 USC 1101 and is from Section 309(b)(15) of Pub. L. 102-232 which provides that "The amendments made by section 8 of the Immigration Technical Corrections Act of 1988 [Pub. L. 100-525], amending this section, sections . . . 1409 . . . shall be effective as if included in the enactment of the Immigration and Nationality Act Amendments of 1986 (Public Law 99-653)." That Act, as set out above, applies only to persons born after November, 1986 and is thus inapplicable to Obama. Note further, that to be subject to this provision, he is going to have to demonstrate he was born out of wedlock--on the current record, he claims his parents were married. And most important, he will need to demonstrate that he was born outside the US--thus disqualifying him from serving as President under Article II, Sec. 1, Par. 4 of the Constitution which is presumably the essential question.

873 posted on 07/04/2008 11:54:43 AM PDT by David (...)
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