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To: Calpernia; 21stCenturyFreeThinker; GreenLanternCorps
Many people think that if you are born on American Soil you must be an American Citizen, and in theory that is true.

However, if one of your parents is not an American Citizen, usually your father, and if that parent Registers you as a National of their country and if that country does not recognize the concept of Dual Citizenship/Nationality you are not an American unless you become Naturalized.

The Nationality of your American Parent and your place of Birth are not relevant, the Law of the other Country takes precedence under The Master Nationality Rule of Article 4 of the Hague Convention of 1930.~~~~~~

If Kenya does not recognize Dual Nationality, Senator Obama is a Kenyan and has been since he was two years old. Prior to that he would have been a British Subject.

If his mother gave up her US Citizenship, and if he was Adopted by her Second Husband, and if Indonesia does not Recognize the Concept of Dual Nationality, Senator Obama is an Indonesian.

In neither case does his Place of Birth or his mothers Nationality have any legal Consequence whatsoever because the USA accepts the existence of Dual Nationality only if the other country does.

Hague Conventions are applied by the USA and this has been US Law since before 1930 (see:Memorandum on Nationality, including Statelessness: Document A/CN.4/67, Prepared by Ivan S Kerno, International Law Commission, United Nations General Assembly, 6th April 1953.)

Link Here

I have had many arguments about Obama's need to reaffirm his citizenship at the age of eighteen according to the laws and processes the State Department has for doing so and every time I have been told that dual citizenship does not matter and that you cannot lose your US citizenship unless certain conditions have been met.

this is the first example of what I have been talking about that our laws do have a means by which someone that has previously lost their citizenship by the actions of a Parent can reaffirm it at eighteen or lose it permanently if they don't follow those steps as required by law and in the process as set by the State Department.

(b) A national who within six months after attaining the age of eighteen years asserts his claim to United States nationality, in such manner as the Secretary of State shall by regulation prescribe, shall not be deemed to have lost United States nationality by the commission, prior to his eighteenth birthday, of any of the acts specified in paragraphs (3) and (5) of section 349(a) of this title.

Now before any of you tell me that this country doesn't recognize other countries' rights to forbid dual citizenship, this country sign an treaty that says we will and we must honor that treaty and it's conditions.

4,628 posted on 08/09/2008 5:10:08 PM PDT by usmcobra (I sing Karaoke the way it was meant to be sung, drunk, badly and in Japanese)
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To: usmcobra
The Nationality of your American Parent and your place of Birth are not relevant, the Law of the other Country takes precedence under The Master Nationality Rule of Article 4 of the Hague Convention of 1930.~~~~~~
The problem is that it takes more than a treaty to override the US Constitution. The 14th amendment grants citizenship to all children born on US soil.* It would take an amendment to the Constitution to comply with a treaty like that. The Constitution trumps treaties. US law trumps treaties. We violate treaties all the time.

If a citizen's citizenship could be given away by treaty you can bet the members of one of the political parties would have lost theirs by now. A treaty with the microscopic island of umba-bomga.

As I pointed out in this post, SEC. 349. [8 U.S.C. 1481] does not leave a hole for Obama can fall into.

--------------

* short of the offspring of certain holders of diplomatic passports.

4,640 posted on 08/09/2008 8:42:19 PM PDT by 21stCenturyFreeThinker
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To: usmcobra
More from the linked discussion.
What I am saying is that he probably isn't eligible to be elected, selected, made, etc, etc President of these United States, or that if he is, Governor Schwarzenegger would have a very good case for seeking an Amendment to the Constitution.
An amendment to the Constitution is a fine thing for Governor Schwarzenegger to seek. He has no less right than anyone else. The amendment starts out life in Congress or in a Constitutional convention. There is nothing preventing a naturalized citizen from participating in either of those. Read Article. V:
Article. V. - Amendment

The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, or, on the Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments, which, in either Case, shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States, or by Conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other Mode of Ratification may be proposed by the Congress; Provided that no Amendment which may be made prior to the Year One thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any Manner affect the first and fourth Clauses in the Ninth Section of the first Article; and that no State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of its equal Suffrage in the Senate.


4,641 posted on 08/09/2008 8:47:33 PM PDT by 21stCenturyFreeThinker
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To: usmcobra
The US State Department's web site has the following note about parents renouncing their child's citizenship.
F. RENUNCIATION FOR MINOR CHILDREN

Parents cannot renounce U.S. citizenship on behalf of their minor children. Before an oath of renunciation will be administered under Section 349(a)(5) of the INA, a person under the age of eighteen must convince a U.S. diplomatic or consular officer that he/she fully understands the nature and consequences of the oath of renunciation, is not subject to duress or undue influence, and is voluntarily seeking to renounce his/her U.S. citizenship.


4,643 posted on 08/09/2008 8:51:05 PM PDT by 21stCenturyFreeThinker
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To: usmcobra
This note on the State Department web site discusses Acquisition of U.S. Citizenship By a Child Born Abroad.
Birth Abroad Out-of-Wedlock to a U.S. Citizen Mother: A child born abroad out-of-wedlock to a U.S. citizen mother may acquire U.S. citizenship under Section 301(g) INA, as made applicable by Section 309(c) INA if the mother was a U.S. citizen at the time of the child's birth, and if the mother had previously been physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for a continuous period of one year.
It's likely that Obama's parents were not legally married since his father was already married.
4,645 posted on 08/09/2008 9:04:26 PM PDT by 21stCenturyFreeThinker
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