Posted on 08/29/2007 4:07:37 AM PDT by RedRover
Hope NCIS Special Agent Mark Fox feels like a real man for humiliating a hero of Fallujah for a pointless perp walk. (I also hope Special Agent Fox uses Google.) Your tax dollars at work.
None of that gives any combatant the right to kill a prisoner.
Regardless of the above, and regardless of some radio communication from some unknown person, Americans do not kill prisoners. To vilify some NCIS agent because he may found an instance where Marines kill prisoners is more than foolish. To criticize him because he asks direct questions about a possible murder astounds logic. What did you expect him to ask; how was the soup at supper?
If you do not understand that we should not kill prisoners, you do not understand why are in Iraq.
Weemer says “something” happened but he doesn’t know what.
Nazario says nothing happened at all.
We now hear of 8 men captured but only 4 killed??? What exactly would be the sense in that? It makes the story unbelievable. When taken into account with no evidence, no bodies, and no crime scene, Nazario saying that nothing happened at all begins to look like a reasonable position.
Is it possible for one man to think something has happened in the middle of a battle, to think others see it the same as him, and for another to have an entirely different memory? The answer: Absolutely yes.
It is no different than in a house with husband, wife, and kids when one parent thinks they hear a squabble and another parent thinks they hear horseplay. It’s no different than in a carwreck where bystanders on 4 different corners give 4 different accounts.
It’s no different than any misunderstanding being embellished by retelling, embellishing, further retelling, and further embellishing. After months of that “story creation process,” what really happened?
What did Weemer actually see: according to him, he didn’t actually witness anything.
A crime scene would help sort it out. So would witnesses. So would evidence.
8 prisoners and only 4 killed? Why.....it makes no sense. Did it even happen?
Other Marines who were say Weemer (who was shot three times at close range by an insurgent who was on fire and burning alive) is mistaken. That he is merging two or more incidents and that no one shot a legitimate detainee.
Fallujah was one hell of a confusing fight. It wasn't Wehrmacht soldiers with their hands in the air. It was guys with rigged explosives under their t-shirts and grenades in their pockets, juiced on cocaine and shots of adrenalin. If you don't understand the nature of our enemy, you don't understand why we are in Iraq.
NCIS agents don't care that other Marines say this incident never happened. As has been solidly documented in the Haditha case for anyone paying attention, NCIS routinely ignores exculpatory evidence in their pursuit of another notch on their belts.
In trying to build some kind of case, NCIS has been on a fishing expedition for two years. Getting nowhere, they are arresting people in such a way that he will lose his livelihood. Maybe a few lost paychecks, and the prospect of losing your home will bring you around to sign statements that NCIS will be happy to prepare. (Pop Quiz: How many Marines signed affidavits that they didn't write their own statements in the Lt Phan case?)
War is Hell. Our defenders who went through that Hell do not deserve a perp walk just because an NCIS agent wants to shake him in hope of building a case.
And for working to destroy a Marine veteran's life, you bet your life I will vilify the villain who did it.
I see they died with their eyes open. Their last view in life was of a Marine and something fast and shiny.
Powerful recitation, Red; thank you and thanks to Nat Helms.
Don’t know if anybody caught the language of the letter you posted, but based on my recollection of two high-school years, it appears to be a group of different Greetings from some Jihadists to their German families. “Wie gehtes” is ‘How are you’ — “Ich liebe Dich” is ‘I love you’. Other words are recognisable but I don’t know enough to translate them.
Definitely shows that they were fighting more than local patriots defending their homeland from foreign invaders.
I have spent years being a faithful and dutiful military spouse. My children and I have made countless sacrifices for this cause, and did so before 9/11. My husband is defined by the USMC. He is a Marine before all else. It terrifies me that he could end up being labeled as a murderer for doing the things that the Marine Corps taught him to do in the first place.
I support this mission, and I support this President, but I will be damned if I will continue doing so if they are simply sending him over there so that he can choose between death or jail. Either fight the damn war or don’t. It is NOT POSSIBLE to stay somewhere in the middle.
Very well said, and thank you for saying it.
Yet another informative article by Nat Helms, again he does his homework and writes expertly.
It is one thing for an agent to investigate an incident but it is quite another to compulsively pursue a hero with no more evidence than he seemed to have had.
To set up an arrest and a perp walk as he did with officer Navario in front of his fellow officers is pathetic and unforgivable, it sounds like he did it to satisfy an inflated ego.
It is past time that the NCIS be overhauled and that will have to be done by starting at the top and working down. Many agents in these cases involving the Marines have treated them worse than hardened civilian criminals or illegal combatants have been treated. If SECNAV Winter doesn’t start an investigation of the NCIS, his head should be the first to roll.
Argh
Navario=Nazario
Right on!! Our military and their families have enough hardships to endure without having to worry about military and political leaders crucifying them for doing what they are trained to do.
Like you, my initial take was that there has to be fire under all that smoke. After following up on the reports from the North County Times in Cal., even they were questioning the methods used by NCIS. No one has the exact same recollections of any event experienced under extreme duress, and I think you will agree Fallujah was the pinnacle of duress.
Weemer was psychologically hit at the start of the engagement by the death of his friend; he was not the radio operator; he did not see anything himself; his story is more the hear-say of the chatter he recalls from two or three years ago. None of the other team members support his version, and there is ample evidence that NCIS has and continues to play fast and loose with the procedures of taking/extorting witness statements. I now place NCIS on the same plateau as 'Prosecutor' Nifong in the Duke Lacrosse case -- beneath contempt.
I have no doubt that the Military will bring to justice those members who violate the rules of civilised conduct, whether in peace or at war, but not with the railroad jobs NCIS is promulgating to appease the insurgent supporters -- both civilian and political.
See post #4
There are no bodies, no evidence, no crime scene, and some saying that the entire thing never even happened; that it’s a figment of someone’s embellished war stories.
Just curious, how was your soup at supper?
That’s great, because I just threw my old one away. (really) Nobody wants a tongue splinter.
A few Marines knew of the allegations soon after Weemer made them. A few more heard something about them eventually, and still more thought they were a lot of crap. Not a single Marine who fought at Fallujah besides Weemer ever said they were true.
I have no idea if it’s SOP to include that info in an affadavit. It wouldn’t seem so to me and after his performance at the Riverside PD nothing would surprise me, I think the guy has a “me” problem.
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