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Rick Warren - Is He Scary?
http://herescope.blogspot.com/2006/10/rick-warren-is-he-scary.html ^ | Oct 2006 | discernment research group

Posted on 06/25/2007 7:33:30 PM PDT by Blogger

Rick Warren - Is He Scary?

"Do secular liberals who applaud and enable Warren know that he aims to recruit '1 billion Christian foot soldiers' who are willing to do 'whatever it takes' to turn the entire planet into a purpose-driven Kingdom of God? That his Purpose-Driven Ministries, he says, has trained more than 400,000 ministers and priests in 162 countries? "Typically, demagogues who dream of making the whole world conform to their single, uncompromising vision wear gaudy military uniforms that give them an immediately threatening veneer. Rick Warren, on the other hand, favors Hawaiian shirts decorated with large pineapples. Be very afraid. " [Mary Reinholz, "The Thirteen Scariest People in America, October 30, 2006, Old Trout Magazine][emphasis added]

The quote above comes from the left of the spectrum. Now why would Rick Warren be scary to them? Maybe for the same reasons he is scary to us. Did you know that these things were part of the Global P.E.A.C.E. Plan?

"…armed guards, biometric palm scanners and steel doors that guard the facility…"

The Orange County Register, the newspaper of note in "Saddleback Country," California, has been doing a series of stories this Fall on Rick Warren -- his church, his fame, his programs, etc. Most of these pieces haven't been notable. But yesterday's article was another matter. For the first time we get to peek behind the scenes at the Global P.E.A.C.E. Plan. And what we learn is downright scary!

1. There is a strangely SECRETIVE "Internet-based PEACE plan training."

This is for the short-term missionaries who become part of the billion-man army to implement Warren's Global P.E.A.C.E. Plan. The article states that:

"The fledgling 'e-missionaries' depend in turn upon a $3 million Internet-based training platform the church is building to educate and track its PEACE plan participants. When finished, the Web site ( www.thepeaceplan.com) will constitute the main – if not only – source of information many PEACE missionaries will have about the troubled places they visit." [emphasis added]

2. This uses a mammoth databanking facility.

This use of Internet technology which is unprecedented in the way in which it will manage, control, direct, monitor and databank the emerging Global P.E.A.C.E. Plan -- its recruits and its activities. The article reports that this databank is an:

"…expression of Warren's lifelong fascination with the evangelistic possibilities of technology and the first test pilots of his belief that the Internet is, like the printing press, an epochal invention that will multiply the message of Christ and transform the future church.

"'Every time God's word is put in a new technology, there's a spiritual awakening,' Warren says. 'We are in a very exciting age where technology is allowing me, and allowing other people, to have far greater impact because it shrinks distance and time, and it multiplies the message.'" [emphasis added] …

…"The computers run a portal that allows Saddleback small groups to log on to the Web site, download training modules and upload reports on their own PEACE trips for the following wave of PEACE missionaries to read."…

3. This is a MAXIMUM SECURITY databank!

This next part of the article should be read in its entirety. Here is what Rick Warren is doing with his technology according to the article:

"Today, Saddleback's information technology department has morphed into a multimillion-dollar 'research and development department of Christianity,' says Warren (paraphrasing management guru Peter Drucker).

"Case in point: Saddleback's new PEACE 'platform,' a Web site built upon original software written by the church's 'pastor' of technology, Eric Busby, and about two dozen engineers and experts around the world.

"Busby wants the PEACE platform to be a full-service Web site to which any church group anywhere in the world can connect and be matched not only with a destination in which to do missionary work, but with training appropriate to the mission.

"That means, Busby says, writing scalable software capable of allowing the Web site to expand as thousands – potentially tens of thousands – of churches sign on. Busby says the Saddleback PEACE site is designed to grow to the size of leading Web sites, such as eBay.

"Already, the platform's electronic brain – the 8-foot racks of hundreds of servers needed to store the site's growing database (14,000 articles in English alone) – is housed in a warehouse-sized, MAXIMUM SECURITY "Tier-1" Internet data center in Irvine.

"'Such centers exist in several dozen locations around the world to host the electronic information of the world's largest companies, which explains the ARMED GUARDS, biometric palm scanners and steel doors that guard the facility,' Busby says." [all emphases added]

4. Only the INITIATED may enter into this WEBSITE.

The Orange County Register article includes a link that lets one TOUR Rick Warren's website. By all means, take this tour. Note the opening statement that says: "The PEACE plan home page and login site. Only church groups that have been screened by Saddleback Church and accepted into the PEACE plan program are currently allowed to use the site." The article then explains:

"In at least one respect… Saddleback does control the PEACE platform. Although Saddleback says it will make training materials available to the general public at some point in the future, for now, the site is proprietary, which means that Saddleback DOES NOT PERMIT nonmembers to view the site. (The Register was allowed to see the site only once, and in the company of a church staffer.)

"Church teams who want to use the materials must register (and attend a conference) under the PEACE program umbrella. Saddleback can, consequently, track and lay claim not only to the 142 PEACE teams that have gone on mission so far, but also to the potentially thousands that will do so in the future and that will become, in the process, indirect partners in the PEACE 'movement' – and brand." [all emphases added]

5. All of this is done with strict controls.

The TOUR says that once "a region is selected, missionaries can research a particular country before choosing it as their destination. They must then have their trip approved by both Saddleback and their own church's leadership" [emphasis added]. The article explains:

"A church is like a business with branch offices," Busby says. "If you start saying we got 2.5 million branch offices – nobody has that." [emphasis added]

6. This is a PROPIETARY, logo-branding, public-relations and merchandising campaign.

The article explains how this works in the marketing world, including a reference to Larry Ross, the P.R. (public relations) firm that handles Saddleback, Warren, etc.

"It is another example of both a core concept and key critique: Warren's knack for synergy. Using technology, a broad vision, an expressed desire to evangelize and, perhaps, a keen sense of market share, Saddleback may create a platform for both the kingdom of God and for itself.

"Influence, however, is something Warren says he courts. It is Larry Ross' job to explain why." [emphases added]

COMMENTARY:

After reading this some key questions come to mind. Why is this secret? Several reasons come to mind, and none of them are very fun to think about. Here some possible reasons for the secrecy, and we exaggerate intentionally to make the point that this is strange and scary:

1. Warren is setting up a cult, complete with entry-level rites (must undergo preliminary training, sign covenants, etc.), indoctrination (in-depth training, including post-mission trip training), monitoring (via high-tech internet feedback loops), databanking (personal, psychological and corporate information), love-bombing (awards and accolades for high performing "healthy" examples), etc. Check out the TOUR pages just to verify all of this.

2. Warren's missionaries will be spies, working at a high level of geo-political intelligence gathering which is so sensitive that it requires armed guards, surveillance and steel doors to protect sensitive information. If this is the case, for whom is he working -- multi-national corporations and/or the United Nations?

3. This is the world's largest marketing gimmick, done in the name of Christ. Proprietary information is being carefully guarded, patented, and branded to protect the corporate intellectual capital and image. If so, this is the indicative of building an empire, a sad example of one man's egotism gone globally amok.

4. This is the world's largest multi-level marketing project, and as such needs tight security to ensure that the product is uniform and consistent, that the field representatives are trained in the exact terminologies, sales pitches, product lines, etc. If so, this is not the humble biblical Gospel message, which is transmitted by God's grace, one-on-one, through no power other than that of the Spirit of God.

5. The secrecy is to keep true believers out. True believers wouldn't sign up if they knew what they were in for. They might discover parallels to, or worse, working relationships with other utopian global peace plans, such as the ones touted by New Age Theosophists. They might find out who Rick Warren's hidden partners are. They might discover the money trails and learn who is actually financing this massive project. They might object to the psycho-social indoctrination (brainwashing?) they they must undergo before, during and after the mission trips. They might learn which partners (corporate or state) have access to their private information which is being collected at this secret website. The list of paranoid possibilities here could go on and on….

Is this how the Gospel should be presented? Is this what it means to do "whatever it takes" to bring the Gospel message to the unsaved peoples on this planet? Or, is this one megalomaniac's giant plan to "advance" a "kingdom" of "God" on earth?

The Truth:

Rick Warren could take a lesson from Jesus:

"Jesus answered him, I spake openly to the world; I ever taught in the synagogue, and in the temple; whither the Jews always resort; and in secret have I said nothing." (John 18:20)


TOPICS: Conspiracy; Religion
KEYWORDS: megachurch; pdl; peace; rickwarren; saddleback
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To: ClaireSolt

Having ‘nothing’ to go on is an assumption on your part. Do a little study on the net. There are some secretive aspects of Rick Warren’s machine that aren’t as well publicized as his sugar-coated TV interviews.

400,000 pastors trained. Isn’t it worth it to investigate to see precisely what they are being trained to do?


21 posted on 06/26/2007 8:15:15 AM PDT by Blogger
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To: Blogger

I don’t know all that much about the specific content described herein - but good grief, the BREATHLESS tone of the reporting contrasted with some of the more mundane facts presented (secured computing facilities - *yawn*) makes me want to do LOTS more research before I start proclaiming that the AntiChrist is upon the earth...


22 posted on 06/26/2007 8:54:18 AM PDT by beezdotcom
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To: beezdotcom

More like the false prophet.

I encourage your research. Yes, the reporting may be breathless; but from what i’ve been reading, Warren IS Scary. This is just one more thing on top of a pile of others.

Hint for googling: when you search for RW, don’t stop there. Type in something like “Rick Warren””resisters”. Interesting and scary stuff there.


23 posted on 06/26/2007 9:10:46 AM PDT by Blogger
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To: Blogger

His sin is secrecy ( 0r more that you don’t know what 400,000 do. You call h8im a false prophet. You strike me as a gossip and slanderer, apparently with little basis.


24 posted on 06/26/2007 10:28:37 AM PDT by ClaireSolt (Have you have gotten mixed up in a mish-masher?)
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To: ClaireSolt

Have you done the research that I suggested? Considering how quickly you reacted, the answer appears to be “no.” Therefore, who is slandering whom?

Do the research. There is more than meets the eye here.


25 posted on 06/26/2007 11:16:21 AM PDT by Blogger
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To: Blogger
I don't make it my business to know a lot about Rick Warren, but the more I have heard him -- not people talking about him, but him in his own words -- the more he seems like a neo-Hubbard, building a lucrative empire rather than a ministry.
26 posted on 06/26/2007 11:22:31 AM PDT by L.N. Smithee (Has George W. Bush been taking Carter's Little Pills?)
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To: L.N. Smithee

He has many public faces, that’s for sure. In front of Christians, he sounds orthodox. In front of non-Christians, he sounds like he just wants to help everyone and had no intention of evangelizing anyone else. Definitions change. Goals change. And, the world loves him. He’s been dubbed “America’s Pastor”. That should concern anyone who is biblically discerning enough to pay attention.


27 posted on 06/26/2007 11:25:09 AM PDT by Blogger
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To: Blogger

All of these mega cults and islamo fascists, and now 40 million mexicans able to vote in the USA... oops, I am only slightly ahead of myself on that last one... but, in a short while I will be right... anyway,... all these are just setting the stage for Anti-christ...


28 posted on 06/26/2007 11:26:20 AM PDT by RachelFaith
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To: RachelFaith

It is certainly getting interesting.


29 posted on 06/26/2007 11:37:08 AM PDT by Blogger
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To: Blogger

No, I am not interested. You are the evil one, I think.


30 posted on 06/26/2007 12:25:11 PM PDT by ClaireSolt (Have you have gotten mixed up in a mish-masher?)
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To: ClaireSolt

Why thank you. That was a very Christian statement.


31 posted on 06/26/2007 12:29:45 PM PDT by Blogger
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To: Blogger
but from what i’ve been reading, Warren IS Scary.

You might well be right - but if he is, it's not because of his 'data centers under armed guard'. That's standard industry practice, and in these days of identity theft, very prudent.

If you've got dirt on Warren, by all means, post it - but I might suggest using articles that restrict the "sky is falling" tone to actual pieces of sky.
32 posted on 06/26/2007 4:13:16 PM PDT by beezdotcom
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To: beezdotcom
If people are willing to learn the truth, they will do as I suggested above and google it. Also, the link to a series of radio programs was posted. But you know what the first thing that showed me the dark side of the Purpose Driven Methodology was this quote from a Wall Street Journal article called "Purpose Driven Methods Divide."

Some pastors learn how to make their churches purpose-driven through training workshops. Speakers at Church Transitions Inc., a Waxhaw, N.C., nonprofit that works closely with Mr. Warren's church, stress that the transition will be rough. At a seminar outside of Austin, Texas, in April, the Revs. Roddy Clyde and Glen Sartain advised 80 audience members to trust very few people with their plans. "All the forces of hell are going to come at you when you wake up that church," said Mr. Sartain, who has taught the material at Mr. Warren's Saddleback Church.

During a session titled "Dealing with Opposition," Mr. Clyde recommended that the pastor speak to critical members, then help them leave if they don't stop objecting. Then when those congregants join a new church, Mr. Clyde instructed, pastors should call their new minister and suggest that the congregants be barred from any leadership role.
http://www.moriel.org/articles/discernment/church_issues/purpose_driven_splits_congregants.htm

Jesus didn't say "beware of false prophets who come in sheep's clothing" for nothing. Unfortunately, most folks have the discernment of a toad frog or only see what they want to see. I originally considered Warren a rather benign individual. No more.
33 posted on 06/26/2007 7:43:02 PM PDT by Blogger
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To: Blogger

The problem is that if I substituted “purpose driven doctrine” with “rejection of homosexuality doctrine in the Episcopal church”, then I would advise similar methods of dealing with dissent to any Episcopal pastor who wanted to try to salvage his church. If there is heresy in the “purpose driven” doctrine, it’s not necessarily in THIS part of it.


34 posted on 06/27/2007 3:40:06 AM PDT by beezdotcom
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To: beezdotcom

As a Christian, you have the right and responsibility to address BOTH in the church. The pastors should not be gestapo agents stalking folks to the next church that dared to object to the changes in their own church and telling future pastors not to allow them into any leadership role. If the church member had truly done something unbiblical and was unrepentant, perhaps. But, NOTHING in Scripture indicates we should give pastors carte blanche permission to do or say whatever they want. Paul commended the Bereans for checking his words with Scripture. False prophets are there. When the flock is being scattered because of PD methodology (as well as theology), then those who are discerning should take a stand.


35 posted on 06/27/2007 8:41:53 AM PDT by Blogger
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To: Blogger
The pastors should not be gestapo agents stalking folks to the next church that dared to object to the changes in their own church and telling future pastors not to allow them into any leadership role.

Maybe it would be better if the pastors simply posted to a popular web site and listed the particular doctrines they felt weren't being properly followed by these particular folks.
36 posted on 06/28/2007 11:10:40 PM PDT by beezdotcom
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To: beezdotcom

Clever. And exactly how much research have you done as to the destruction of the church by the Purpose Driven movement?


37 posted on 06/29/2007 5:23:01 AM PDT by Blogger
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To: Blogger
And exactly how much research have you done as to the destruction of the church by the Purpose Driven movement?

Certainly not nearly as much as you.
38 posted on 06/29/2007 6:33:47 PM PDT by beezdotcom
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To: beezdotcom

When I was at Seminary, I considered Rick Warren a rather benign nuisance. His “Saddleback Sam” idea seemed to me a bit unbiblical and the methodology being used more prone to the exaltation of man and his abilities to gain numbers than to God’s ability to forgive sinners. Though I saw many preachers latching onto the Purpose Driven Church to implement the strategy in their churches. It wasn’t until it began to hit my own church that I began to do the research. The story isn’t finished on my church, but the training that PD Pastors have received have brought about a harvest of broken hearts and broken churches. Adrian Rogers, the great Southern Baptist Preacher who died in 2005 own church is in the midst of a split in part because of PD strategies.

Please google RW and “Church splits” or something like that. It’s kinda like what Scripture says “Whoa unto you when men speak well of you... for so did they the false prophets (paraphrase).

You may not agree with some of the conclusions I am pointing towards. But, always being ready to give an answer includes doing so research so that one can come to an informed opinion. My heart is sick over what is happening (and I’m actually in the ‘desirable’ age bracket in my church). I hope the church awakens.


39 posted on 06/29/2007 8:47:24 PM PDT by Blogger
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To: Blogger
Look, there's no doubt that some PD strategies taken to the extreme can cause problems - unfortunately, that's true for any strategy for outreach and growth that is taken to extremes. Many, many, many church splits occur simply because new pastors or people violate the 'holy ordinance' of We Don't Do Things That Way Here.

Googling aside, I don't see anything magical about PD that makes it worth lionizing OR demonizing. If you must crusade, you're better served to make it against ANY flavor-of-the-month Christian movement. Meanwhile, a lot of churches seem to successfully borrow from PD without actually "buying into it".
40 posted on 06/30/2007 11:10:36 AM PDT by beezdotcom
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