Abortion - Don't just hold Rudy and Mitt accountable, remember Fred

Spark it Up ^ | June 24, 2007

[Cicero]

Nobody is perfect except Jesus. But we have a clear spectrum among these three candidates.

Rudy Giuliani is an extreme pro-abortionist, who supports partial birth abortion and thinks there is a constitutional right for abortion AND a right to have abortions paid for by taxes. None of the other Republican candidates come near him in this regard.

Mitt Romney has a record of saying that he would not interfere with the right to abortion in Massachusetts. He also is implicated in several actions while he was governor that furthered abortion. And he signed onto the court-madated homosexual marriage business when he didn’t have to.

Fred Thompson has a perfect record in congress as a pro-lifer. He checked a couple of statements on surveys many years ago that could be variously interpreted, but unlike Romney he did not do anything in office to help further the culture of death.

In short, Romney is better than Giuliani, and Thompson is better than Romney. And this attack is uncalled for and counterproductive, because it can do nothing but bounce back and hurt Romney.

[WalterSkinner]

Well, I suppose the feeling’s mutual. More often than not, click on a Hunter thread, and you’ll find a dose of retread insults on Duncan Hunter. “Duncan Who?”

..as I pointed out last night, lowest shot at DH taken on this board, which neither the mods, nor to my knowledge any FDT supporter rebuked, was the attempt by some to connect Hunter with Randy Cunningham and crooked defense contractors--which BTW is without any foundation.

If anyone can prove otherwise, you will have my public apology...

[AnnaZ]

The post (#53) was nonsensical.

But the poster didn't start a thread touting a decade+ old statement to attempt to back it up.

The issue with this thread, and it's originator, is that this topic has been tossed around ad nauseum already. When NRTL invites Romney or Giuliani to speak to them, get back to me. Otherwise, this issue should be taken up with the org... Thompson's clearly pro-life enough for them.

If pristine pro-life street cred is one's sole candidate-choosing litmus test, vote your conscience. There are plenty of other issues on the table as well. Hunter may be one's ideal candidate, and therefore one should be working to bring him visibility and viability, not trashing fellow travellers whose support would eventually be needed were that work to be successful.

[perfect_rovian_storm]

So, we’re supposed to ‘rebuke’ any attack on Duncan Hunter regardless of who made it or why? Can you link me to this attack?

I won’t be rebuking anything, because I honestly don’t know anything about Duncan Hunter’s relationship or lack thereof with Duke Cunningham. If it’s without foundation, why not say so? Post some evidence to the contrary and move on. Discredit the argument.

Is someone posting it to every Duncan Hunter thread and then accusing you of personal attacks when you try and refute it like a select few Duncan Hunter supporters are doing to Fred Thompson threads? I don’t generally read a lot of the Duncan threads, so if that’s happening, I’m not aware of it. If it’s a Fred supporter that I know that is doing it though, I’ll be happy to talk to them about it.

[Paperdoll]

You know, if you’d concentrate on coming up with valid reasons why we should vote for Fred Thompson, rather than going grizzly on Duncan Hunter, and his followers, you might sell a few more books.

[dirtboy]

You know, if you’d concentrate on coming up with valid reasons why we should vote for Fred Thompson, rather than going grizzly on Duncan Hunter, and his followers, you might sell a few more books.

Coming from a leading Fred basher, that's both hilarious and shameless.

[dirtboy]

..as I pointed out last night, lowest shot at DH taken on this board, which neither the mods, nor to my knowledge any FDT supporter rebuked, was the attempt by some to connect Hunter with Randy Cunningham and crooked defense contractors--which BTW is without any foundation.

First of all, a poster who was shopping a bogus Hunter attack around FR was banned for such. Second, Fred wasn't even making significant noises at the time, so it's kinda hard for a FDT supporter to rebuke this stuff when FDT wasn't available to support at the time.

And third, a fair number of Hunter supporters (myself included) migrated to Fred when Hunter failed to engage and mobilize grassroots support. We defended Hunter plenty against scurrilous attacks such as what you have mentioned. So it's a pity to see a few unprincipled Hunter supporters returning the favor by attacking Fred.

[RockinRight]

Is this the best you’ve got?

And did you expect him to say “McCain is a doodie-head?”

[dirtboy]

Great post.

And this attack is uncalled for and counterproductive, because it can do nothing but bounce back and hurt Romney.

Yeah, most of the attacks against Fred by the Mitt and Rudy camps boomerang right back at their guys, and a lot harder.

[RockinRight]

We’ve come up with PLENTY of reasons. You either accused us of lying, accused Fred of lying, or gave us something about the Illuminati/Council on Foreign Relations/Freemasons/Build-a-burger or whatever.

You have your guy, we have ours, that’s fine.

[WalterSkinner]

..dirtboy, I remember your defense of DH

Some of those people are still on FR, although they hold dual citizenship over on the "alternative reality" site.

I'm not expecting anyone to defend anyone. If you will check my posts for many years, I am not into personal attacks--that is not what I am about.

Tough criticism is fine by me. And personal opinion should always prefaced with IMHO.

I would hope that both camps would always keep in mind that there is more in common between us than not.

I do not support FDT--you do--so let's put on the gloves and campaign...

[dirtboy]

Tough criticism is fine by me. And personal opinion should always prefaced with IMHO.

I don't have a problem with hard-nosed debate. But it needs to be factual and not silly, stupid attacks such as calling Fred a coward because he hasn't entered the race yet - the folks doing that apparently could care less about the success of Fred's strategy to date - to the contrary, that success is what apparently has pushed them to irrationality.

Hunter's a great guy. But he failed to exploit his one chance - the widespread grassroots support he had early in the year. Ironically, Fred, the guy a few Hunter supporters are calling lazy, has done the best job at using new media and grassroots support - while still being able to attract key fundraisers and staffers. That's no small feat.

[b9]

Out of context quote you pulled ~
read the conversation.
Pro-life mothers were attacked
with clueless vindication.

[Paperdoll]

Hey dirtboy. I think you were the one who complained to me that you had volunteered for Duncan Hunter’s campaign and they never contacted you. I told you I’d look into it, and get back to you. Well, I did , and I did, but I didn’t get any reply about that from you. Have you had any word from the campaign as yet? I am trying to get a list of people who need to be contacted to help them out because his campaign has taken off, and they are terribly busy. Again, I will let you know what I find out.

[dirtboy]

Hey dirtboy. I think you were the one who complained to me that you had volunteered for Duncan Hunter’s campaign and they never contacted you. I told you I’d look into it, and get back to you. Well, I did , and I did, but I didn’t get any reply about that from you. Have you had any word from the campaign as yet? I am trying to get a list of people who need to be contacted to help them out because his campaign has taken off, and they are terribly busy. Again, I will let you know what I find out.

I'm sorry, but I am now supporting Fred. Hunter had a very narrow window of opportunity. And that window is now closed.

My point was, Hunter had one shot - to harness grassroots support when the fire was hot. His campaign failed to do that. I still like the guy. But he had to get traction immediately, and did not. There is no way he can catch Fred now - Fred's 25 points ahead of Hunter and has the afterburners going. Hunter hasn't even gotten his jet started yet.

[dirtboy]

Oh, and FWIW, I still have not received another email from the campaign. I received exactly ONE email - dated March 13th - and it was just a WND article.

That is NOT how you mobilize grassroots support. To the contrary, Hunter's campaign will probably be studied for how it failed to harness grassroots support. How friggin' hard is it to have someone send out emails twice a week with guidelines for generating more support for Hunter? Not at all. Heck, I probably would have done the job if asked. I imagine a hundred freepers would have as well.

[Extremely Extreme Extremist]

Are we not allowed to post articles questioning him, and asking questions?

Because they've been answered hundreds of times on existing Fred FR threads! I get sick of seeing the same-old propaganda posted on every Fred thread! Do a friggin' search!!

[DieselHoplite]

“He also is implicated in several actions while he was governor that furthered abortion.”

Name one.

“And he signed onto the court-madated homosexual marriage business when he didn’t have to.”

Not true.

“Fred Thompson has a perfect record in congress as a pro-lifer.”

Then how come he got a 77 rating from National Right to Life while most other republicans got 100?

http://www.vote-smart.org/issue_rating_category.php?can_id=22003

[DieselHoplite]

“I think it was Petronski, started calling them Willardian Trolls, which I think has a great ring to it and makes me laugh”

Nice.

[DieselHoplite]

“When NRTL invites Romney or Giuliani to speak to them, get back to me.”

Romney was invited. His speech was quite good and word is he got a long standing ovation:

http://www.mittromney.com/News/Speeches/National_Right_To_Life_Convention_Forum