Questions For Mitt Romney

Richard Packham (revised by Bonaparte) | unpublished | Richard Packham (revised by Bonaparte)

[Bonaparte]

News reports say that Governor Romney, looking ahead to the possibility of presenting himself as a candidate for the U.S. presidency in 2008, has met privately with Christian leaders to allay their concerns about the fact that he is a Mormon. (See Boston Globe, Nov 2, 2006 at http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2006/11/02/romney_consults_evangelical_leaders ) These leaders apparently are concentrating on areas such as Romney's view of gay marriage, abortion, and whether Romney is really a Christian. Undoubtedly Romney's answers in those areas will satisfy most of these Christian leaders.

However, not knowing much about Mormon doctrine and practices, many Christians are unaware of some of the areas in which the idea of a Mormon as president could raise serious doubts in their minds. They simply don't know what to ask the governor.

Below are some suggested questions which might profitably be asked of Governor Romney, both by Christian leaders and by journalists.

• According to Mormon scripture, the founder of your church (Joseph Smith) was told by God in 1820 that all the churches of the day were "an abomination." Do you agree with God's view of other churches, as quoted by Joseph Smith? (Pearl of Great Price, JS-Hist 1:18-19)

• According to your church's Articles of Faith, number eight, the Book of Mormon is the "word of God." Do you believe that?

• According to the Book of Mormon there are only two churches: the "church of the Lamb of God [presumably the Mormon church]" and the "church of the devil," "the whore of all the earth." Do you agree with that Mormon scripture? (Book of Mormon, 1 Nephi 14:10)

• According to the Book of Mormon a dark skin is a curse imposed by God on the unrighteous and their descendants as a punishment for sin. Do you agree with that doctrine? (Book of Mormon, 1 Nephi 12:22-23, Alma 3:6, 2 Nephi 5:21-22, Jacob 3:8, 3 Nephi 2:15-16, Mormon 5:15; references to the "Lamanites" are taken to be referring to Native American "Indians".)

• According to Mormon doctrine, the president of the Mormon church is a prophet of God, receiving revelations and commandments (God's laws) directly from God. Do you believe that? (Doctrine and Covenants , 21:5, 43:3, 58:18)

• One of the most sacred rituals for adult Mormons, performed only in a Mormon temple, is a ceremony called "the endowment." Have you undergone this ritual? If so, in what year?

• To be admitted to the temple for the endowment ceremony a Mormon must be "in good standing" in the church and undergo a personal interview with church leaders, who examine the member as to whether the member obeys church commandments, supports church leaders, pays full ten percent tithe, wears the prescribed Mormon underwear, abstains from coffee, tea, alcohol, tobacco and extramarital sex, and other matters. If the member answers correctly, a pass to the temples (called a "temple recommend") is issued, good for two years. Do you have such a temple recommend now, indicating that you are in good standing in your church?

• In the secret Mormon temple ceremony Mormons take an oath of obedience to "the law of the Lord." Did you take that oath?

• Before 1990, the endowment ceremony required members to take an oath of secrecy not to reveal anything that happened in the temple under penalty of death. Did you take that oath?

• In the temple ceremony Mormons also take a secret oath to "consecrate your time, talents and everything which the Lord has blessed you, or with which he may bless you, to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints..." Did you take that oath? Would you consider the office of the presidency of the U.S. to be a "blessing" with which the Lord had blessed you?

• Mormons teach that by obedience to all the commandments of Mormonism, a Mormon may attain the highest degree of heaven and ultimately become a god, creating and ruling over his own dominion. Do you believe that? Is this your ultimate personal goal?

• Although your church presently condemns the practice of polygamy, the scripture commanding it is still in the Mormon Doctrine and Covenants, Section 132. Many early Mormons were polygamous and married ("sealed") to numerous wives "for eternity." Do you believe then that there will be polygamous families in Mormon heaven?

• The extensive interest of Mormons in genealogical research is to enable them to perform "baptisms for the dead," thus posthumously inducting previous generations into the Mormon church. Many non-Mormons become angry when they learn that the names of their ancestors - having often been faithful members of some other religion during life - have been used in this way. often without permission of the living descendants. The posthumous baptism of many holocaust victims caused considerable anger among Jewish groups, and your church agreed to stop the practice as to them (but also admitted that it was unable to do so). Do you feel that such anger is justified? (Would you feel anger if some voodoo cult was using your deceased grandparents' names in some voodoo ritual, and then announcing to all the world that they were now voodoo worshippers?)

• It is well documented that Joseph Smith, the founder of the Mormon Church, secretly had many wives. Some of those women were at the same time married to other men, meaning that Smith brought them into a state of adultery. Some were as young as fifteen. He claimed that he was commanded by God to enter into these marriages. Do feel that these early polygamous and adulterous marital practices of the church founder were really commanded by God? (See the book In Sacred Loneliness: The Plural Wives of Joseph Smith by Mormon historian Todd Compton for detailed biographies of these wives.)

• Mormons believe that when Christ returns to earth, a millennium of peace will begin under Christ's rule (Article of Faith number ten), presumably as a single theocracy. Most Mormons believe that during that time, Mormons will be Christ's appointed officers and that the law will conform to Mormon teachings. Do you believe that?

• According to Mormon scripture (Doctrine and Covenants 135:3), Joseph Smith did more than any other man except Jesus Christ "for the salvation of men in this world." Do you agree with that, keeping in mind the contributions of men like the Apostles, Saint Paul, Thomas Aquinas, Saint Augustine and others?

[Bonaparte]

Since I've had to repeat this several times already on this thread, I suppose it won't hurt me to repeat it again. And again. And again.

The question I actually asked, as distinct from the question you and others keep putting in its place and then "answering," is...

Does the Book of Mormon contain the numerous doctrinal assertions of black racial inferiority cited at the original question and does Mitt Romney accept those passages in the Book of Mormon or does he reject those passages of his church's holy book?

That is the question that nobody wants addressed. It's also the question that I and many others will be asking repeatedly for as long as Mr. Romney is in this presidential race.

[TAdams8591]

The Curse of Ham

There was something about that passage that was vaguely familiar. So I looked it up. To call THWP a Liar was a bit harsh.

[Bonaparte]

Oh yeah — when you get to the page I linked in post 80, just scroll down to “R” (as in racism). The topics are all listed in alphabetic order for you.

[Neu Pragmatist]

Well , we will be here to defend against this kind of garbage.
One can disagree with Mitt on the issues , but to slam him over Mormonism will in effect be placing oneself in the “bigoted Conservative” column as the Liberals are portraying most Conservatives . We should not feed into the Liberal prop ....

[TAdams8591]

Fair and balanced is rather in the eyes of the beholder on FR.

[Mr. Blonde]

Other than question 4, which is no longer a part of Mormon doctrine and question 11 since it may mean he has to use the presidency to further the Mormon church why do you care? It is his personal faith? How much difference will those other things make in how he runs the country? He can believe whatever he wants about Joseph Smith and it doesn’t change what he has accomplished. Why does it matter?

[Bonaparte]

Teri, you went to catechism as a child, you also attended Bible Study class and you are presumably still a believing Roman Catholic.

That's why I can't figure out why you would first praise THWP for grossly misrepresenting what is in Scripture and then turn to Wikipedia as your authority on Biblical matters. Why not consult your own parish priest or your own church's written doctrine. Both of them will tell you exactly what I have said.

And, btw, it is harsh to call THWP a liar. Just as it was harsh for Jesus to call the Pharisees a generation of vipers and names much harsher than that. I will not tolerate an unbeliever misrepresenting the Holy Bible and what's in it. And I will call a spade a spade.

[To Hell With Poverty]

Thanks, I’ve checked Bonaparte’s link as well and found nothing to justify that accusation of me. I didn’t claim that the whole curse of Ham thing was an accurate interpretation of the Bible, just that many people, who claim to be Christian, have used it for their own evil purposes. I don’t know of a religion that has escaped that fate. Nothing arrogant about that!

[onja]

Ok. Sure, that is a valid question. Just as valid as me going and asking every mainstream Christian candidate

"Are there assertions in the Bible that government policy can rightfully include genocide and the killing of gays, adulterers, witches, blasphemers, and such, and whether they support their holy, inerrant scriptures."

In other words, pointless. I do not answer your question because your question is stupid. To put it bluntly. Of course, you are free to ask them however much you want. Just don't expect any good responses by the electorate.

[TAdams8591]

For some reason that I can't figure out, the experience on this thread is like being in class.

Please explain it to me, teacher.

[TAdams8591]

From the wikipedia account, it appears many jews used that passage long ago, for their own ends, but no longer.

[Vigilanteman]

As I've said, I'm more concerned with his actions than words he said or didn't say when he made his first foray into politics.

1. He turned the scandal ridden 2002 Olympics into a honest, money making success.

2. He actually created a number of successful, worldwide companies rather than had his wealth handed to him.

3. He pulled the most lieberal state in the union out of the economic crapper with sound economic policies as governor, albeit that the People's Republic of Massachusetts seems doggedly determined to head right back in.

Any of these three resume sales points makes him a far more attractive candidate than any of the front-runners in either party.

But you'd automatically disqualify him because you don't like his religion, something that apparently scares you more than proven misrule by the Queen Hildebeast or probable misrule by the Soros sock-puppet Osama Obama. Apparently, the constitutional prohibition against religious tests means nothing to you.

It would be nice if you could get behind a candidate whom you can support rather than waste bandwidth trashing one of the most loyal, conservative demographics in the country.

For those of us on the Pennsylvania board, it is just too reminiscent of how a good but imperfectly conservative senator was traded in for yet another Soros sock puppet because we allowed Rick Santorum's critics to hijack bandwidth on a conservative, political forum.

[To Hell With Poverty]

And, btw, it is harsh to call THWP a liar. Just as it was harsh for Jesus to call the Pharisees a generation of vipers and names much harsher than that. I will not tolerate an unbeliever misrepresenting the Holy Bible and what's in it. And I will call a spade a spade.

Some stones for your casting, Oh Holy One:

Go ahead, pick one up and throw it.

[TAdams8591]

"You also attended bible study class."

Now, now Bonaparte, if you are as familiar with Catholics and Catholicism as you claim, you know we don't attend Bible study classes like the protestants. : )

"Why not consult your own parish priest or your own church's written doctrine."

Maybe because on the East Coast it's 12 midnight and my parish priest is asleep. I can't be certain he'd know the answer to this one anyway and as it is, far too often, I've had to remind too many of the priests in the area, of our catechism. : )

[Neu Pragmatist]

May I ask , why this is such a big issue with you ? I don’t understand what the problem is . Would you be as concerned if he was a muzzie ?

[Bonaparte]

"Other than question 4, which is no longer a part of Mormon doctrine...?"

Lord have mercy, Mr. Blonde! Don't you bother to read what is set right before your eyes?

Go back to question #4 in the original "article."

Click on all the links provided in support of the premise of that question.

Actually read them!

Consider them all as a group, taken together, and what they say both individually and collectively.

Then scroll to the very bottom of any of those linked pages and read what is written there!

It is the current Book of Mormon copyrighted 2006 by the Latter Day Saints Church itself!

Why is nobody willing to read what is placed right before his eyes?

"Why does it matter?"

Keep reading this thread. I have explained why it matters to me and to many others.

[TAdams8591]

"But you'd automatically disqualify him because you don't like his religion, something that apparently scares you more than proven misrule by the Queen Hildebeast or probable misrule by the Soros sock-puppet Osama Obama. Apparently, the constitutional prohibition against religious tests means nothing to you."

As Rush said, I'll take a Mormon over a Liberal anyday.

[TAdams8591]

LOL! Those stones are too pretty to throw.

[Bonaparte]

"...you know we don't attend Bible study classes..."

Really?

Fascinating!

8-Week Catholic Bible Study Class offered by Mission Basilica at their parish in San Juan Capistrano.

Want more?

Sounds like you might benefit from this.

Perhaps a Catholic Bible Study Class on the east coast, closer to Philadelphia?

[Bonaparte]

"Go ahead, pick one up and throw it."

I already have.

Misrepresent the Bible again and I'll do the same.