Posted on 03/06/2007 8:25:19 AM PST by areafiftyone
"...Giuliani has shown that he doesn't even understand the 2nd Amendment..."
Neither do most 'conservatives'.
"Their past personal indiscretions speak volumes of their character."
Didn't seem to hurt Nixon, Bush I or Bush II, did it?
"Supporting a Democrat openly against a Republican is the most significant indiscretion Giuliani has ever made. He allowed his personal feelings get between himself and party loyalty. Now, in 2008 he might expect the same in return."
Strong assertion. State your proof of personal animosity between Rudy and Pataki. As for supporting a member of the opposition party, because the man is a republican he's not entitled to have a free mind and make his own choices? This is what we have been talking about the entire time: pragmatic thinking above the primacy of party loyalty. John McCain is fairly lionized by some conservatives, and yet he's revels in the role of "maverick", so what's your point? Are we to blindly follow an ideology and party that focuses on a narrow range of issues to the detriment of all else? If I offered you a low-tax, low-spending, law-and-order, get-the-bureaucrats-off-their-behinds, tough-talking conservative most days you wouldn't have an issue with him at all, I guess, so long as his name isn't Giuliani. I'm surprised that a good many haven't brought out the old canard that being a Catholic and Italian that Giuliani's first loyalties would be to the Pope and the Godfather rather than the GOP or the country.
"He may be fiscally conservative, but we all know his positions on many social issues and he is FAR from conservative, even being to the left of many liberals."
Compared to whom? Illuminate me, please.
Thanks for addressing the question with a non answer. And then add your paralleling Rudy w/clinton is more proof of your trashing for trashing sake.
Would like to make a charge here publicly?
"State your proof of personal animosity between Rudy and Pataki."
Where did I mention animosity. I said "personal feelings". You are like many of the others -- trying to invent charges or put words in other peoples' mouths.
"Compared to whom? Illuminate me, please."
There are many liberal Democrats who are actually opposed to partial birth abortion. We all know it. Go research it on your own, I am not going to argue with you.
I think you have this comparison backwards. In the Giuliani case, it seems like the kid might be the normal one and his father is the "embarrassment."
I don't know much about Andrew Giuliani, but when you consider his background (affluent Catholic prep school in New Jersey, Duke University, prospective golf pro, etc.), I'd be willing to be that he is -- or will be -- considerably more conservative than his father is.
You should provide a link to Tancredo's campaign website so we can learn more about him.
The answer was clear. There is no difference, except for their party labels. As for the Clinton comparison, personal character is an issue. Do you disagree with that? What part of adultery is acceptable for a public official?
In any case, the best move would have been to keep his mouthh shut and let things play out as they would. Rudy's support of Cuomo was certainly not a "smart political move" at all, when you consider that Cuomo actually LOST the election. And remember -- this occurred in an election year (1994) in which Democrats ended up getting swept out of office at all levels of government from one end of this country to the other.
Your "hunch" about Rudy's son is completely unsubstantiated and, therefore, worthless.
"... I am not going to argue with you."
Apparently because you can't, in this case.
"Would like to make a charge here publicly?"
Sure. Nixon was a petty, small-minded, paranoid criminal, Bush I abandoned his pro-choice stance to take Reagan's VP spot so quickly that he left a glowing vapor trail of hypocrisy behind him, and we all know the sordid tale of GWB's alcoholism and drug use, quickly forgiven because he declred Christ his favorite "political philosopher" (anyone remember THAT gem?).
As for abortion issues, I can agree that there are democrats who disagree with their party's line on all aspects of this, too. So why doesn't a pro-life democrat (one in oposition to a basic plank of his/her's party platform) get the same disdain from you with regards to party loyalty, while a republican who endorsed a democrat fall in for abuse? You're the one who's put party loyalty on a pedestal in this post. Didn't GWB and a ton of republicans just endorse Joe Lieberman in this past cycle?
You can't have it both ways, Tommy.
Too bad he wasn't that organized.
Go Mitt!
"I'd be willing to be that he is -- or will be -- considerably more conservative than his father is."
I'd be far ore willing to bet that he's a spoiled, pampered child striking out at Daddy because while he got the Corvette for graduation, he didn't get the pony for his 7th birthday.
The point was that if you wanted to bring this sort of thing into the debate, you'd have to be willing to be fair about it and recognize that even the Gipper had a rocky relationship with his kids, and it didn't hurt him, did it?
Reagan had a rotten relationship with his kids and he's a paragon of virtue; Giuliani has a rotten relationship with his kids and somehow that one more indication of his affinity for Satan.
Go figure.
So, he backed the wrong horse in that race. People make mistakes.
The point I was trying to make is that we all often have to work with or for, or support, people whom we disagree with in order to achieve more important goals.Why should politics be any different than the boardroom or the factory floor in this regard?
You are exactly right, and not one of those millions should be placed in a role where trust and integrity is vital.
Before we all go bezerk here, i went over to those sites listed. Romney didn't attack rudy's kids, its just some no name blogger.
If romney did attack rudy's kids however, that would be a low blow, but i don't think he did.
Jeeze than Reagan should have not have been president. OOOPS! We goofed!
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