Minuteman Civil Defense Project President Chris Simcox Answers Critics

Minuteman Civil Defense Project Mass Email | 14 July 2006 | Chris Simcox

[Spiff]

Minuteman Civil Defense Corps Chris's Answer To Critics

6501 Greenway Parkway Suite 103-640 Scottsdale, AZ 85254 :: Phone (520) 829-3112

"True courage is not the brutal force of vulgar heroes, but the firm resolve of virtue and reason." —Alfred North Whitehead

First, I want to say thank you to all the supporters and believers in this great grassroots movement known as the Minuteman Civil Defense Corps; your dedication has paid off in the momentum we now see across the nation as citizens have reached the level of awareness and frustration we have shared for years.  They are now following your leadership, taking action, and are demanding that our borders be secured.  Our public servants are listening, the politicians are scrambling—positive change is in the air.
               
I find myself in front of the computer finally able to catch up on things after a whirlwind year in which I've logged about 200,000 travel miles spreading the word, educating Americans, confronting elected officials, and recruiting volunteers and supporters of this great Minuteman movement. 
  
It is important that we, the organization and its officers, get into the routine of giving you timely updates on our activities and direction for the future.  Also, in light of some recent misinformation being spread about the Internet it is time to give you, the volunteers and the general public, a report on the progress of MCDC and the Minuteman Border Fence projects.

The Minuteman Border Fence
"If you pursue evil with pleasure, the pleasure passes away and the evil remains; if you pursue good with labor, the labor passes away but the good remains." —Cicero

The first phase of our fence building project began during Memorial Day, and I emphasize “the first phase.”  Given the political duplicity of the U.S. Senate’s vote this week NOT to fund the federal border fence they “approved” just two months ago, we were right in our judgment to proceed.  We gave President Bush an ultimatum, which he only partially and weakly answered with a directive that 6,000 National Guard—mostly unarmed personnel—be deployed to the border to “support” the outgunned and outmanned Border Patrol.

While we know that the move will help somewhat—ANY official presence helps—this is woefully inadequate to effectively secure the border.  So, we decided to go ahead with our fence building as a message back to Bush and Congress—Secure the Border—Now!

We decided first to quickly come to the aid of a supportive local rancher in Cochise County, Arizona by helping him protect his cattle.  The plans for the fence to meet the rancher’s requirements were explicitly outlined during numerous interviews with the media. Of course, we all know the problems in getting the media to print accurate facts or statements in their entirety.  The explicit plans of the design of the fence on the Ladd ranch were clearly outlined in detail during dozens of radio interviews, and that's where you can find the truth.  However, inaccurate statements, taken out of context, by one small town newspaper reporter have fed some circulation of false and malicious claims of a “scam” because the first fence section omitted trenching that would have proved dangerous to the rancher’s cattle.

There was immediately some vandalism to the fence, which has been repaired, and better secured against further attack.
 
That small town reporter got it wrong, just as every other print reporter in this country seems to do.  Never did we make the claim that the double layered Gaza-style security fence would be built on the Ladd ranch.  It was stated over and over that the full blown security fence design would be built when we reached conclusive negotiations with other landowners who were looking at the advisability of erecting such a fence on their properties.  We have now completed arrangements with those ranchers and landowners, and in fact the next section built will be the full Israeli-style fence, with construction commencing soon.  Our precise timetable will depend upon resolving a few lingering engineering issues, and the successful conclusion of certain liability matters as required by law.  It will NOT depend upon the ill-informed hostility of those seeking our failure, or wishing to stir up controversy and increase donations to their foundering organizations.

If one reads our description of the fence building effort instead of just focusing on our generic graphic model, we have clearly stated there will have to be a variety of fence design adaptations, including the “full blown” double layered Gaza Strip-styled security fence.  Coincidently, that precise fence design has been recently adopted by the U.S. federal government in their planning, as well. 

Obviously, this is the most effective design to prevent incursions across our sovereign border.  However, our mission includes coming to the aid of landowners and in two cases we are adjusting our fence construction to design specifications that meet the particular needs of the host landowners.  In the case of the Ladd ranch, we wanted to help protect the rancher's cattle.  The first step was to erect a five-strand barbed-wire fence to protect the cattle from the concertina wire, and the vehicle barriers, both of which will be added later with further accommodations.  So, specifically, there will be a layer of barbed-wire fencing to protect the cattle, concertina wire to prevent human beings from climbing the fence, and steel vehicle barriers to prevent automobiles from driving through the fence.  It seems some folks have a tough time with reading comprehension or visualization of the projected fence designs.

Regarding the funds collected as contributions to the fence project:  All donations which have been received have been recorded, processed, and banked by a highly reputable and responsible caging company which specializes in non-profit accountability.  Funds are safely and appropriately held in a secured bank account, overseen by a certified public accountant and a lawyer, disbursed by an authorized escrow agent only against approved, invoiced expenses.  Some folks want to make it seem as if I personally have collected donor funds, turned them into cash, and have the money hidden under my mattress at home.  For the record, I do not touch contributions at any stage, and I do not personally control MCDC bank accounts—again, objective professional fiduciary officers are accountable for all money in and money out.

All donations are secured in a federal financial institution—a bank, and may be applied only towards the fence building enterprise.  The funds cannot be used in any other way.  We estimate the original 2.2 miles of completed fencing (including concertina wire and vehicle barriers) on the Ladd ranch will run approximately $17,000—could be slightly more could be slightly less. 

To ensure quality control and limit liability issues going forward, we have hired a local contractor to oversee the whole Minuteman Fence project—the contractor charges a minimal reduced fee as their civic contribution to the effort.  We have completed our research on procurement of the materials necessary to construct the Gaza-style double layered security fence.  In fact, the 4” x 4” heavy gauge steel fence post has been purchased; the heavy gauge steel wire mesh and a concertina wire mesh material for the top of the fence have all been located and will be purchased soon.  All of the materials will be moved over the next few weeks, along with heavy equipment, to the ranch area slated for construction phase two.

We are also planning on creating metal plaques with the names of those who wish acknowledgement, who have donated to the Minuteman Border Fence project.  These will be attached to the interior layer of fencing once the construction has been completed.  Everything we promise will be fulfilled.

Volunteers
We have over 1,500 cleared volunteers in our fence volunteer database.  We have many, many more being vetted.  They are being sorted, are being contacted, and will be utilized to create “work teams” to assist with completing the first 2.2 miles of fence, and then will apply their efforts towards helping to build the next phase of the fencing project, which will include the full double layered, 15 foot high, Gaza-style, security fence.  I emphasize the word helping, to clearly define volunteer tasks.  We will be required to “hire” some professionals to help maintain the quality control of the project and limit liability.

Timeline
There has been plenty of vicious criticism about our timeline—ill informed, and I would also ask, “Compared to what?”  Let's look at some obvious physical challenges confronting the fence project.  Extreme summertime temperatures create a situation that is dangerous for our volunteers.  We have decided to hold off launching parts of the project until temperatures are more favorable for all those working.  We have even looked into the expense of renting lighting systems so that volunteers could work after sundown.  However, there are obvious security risks involved in that approach.  Taken together, we have decided it is prudent to wait a bit, and carefully plan and prepare for the next phase. 

In the meantime, we have completed our actual fence blueprints, which are now in the hands of an accredited architect, and engineers, who are ensuring that the fence design meets all regulatory requirements in its construction.  There are of course tremendous liability implications in this project that we are continuously addressing.

We have two landowners in Arizona who have committed to the construction of 1.5 miles of the double layered Gaza-style security fence. (You can read an op-ed written by one of those landowners at the end of this document.)

                We are now in negotiations with a landowner in California, who would like to see the double layered Gaza-style security fence built along his property, to protect his constitutionally-guaranteed pursuit of happiness on sovereign U.S. soil.

 Building fences, such as the double layered Gaza-style security fence, is an enormous engineering and construction feat.  The federal government still flatly refuses to take this on, despite the double-talk.  It must be planned carefully with the safety of the volunteers being considered first and foremost in importance.  Plans needed to be drawn, materials needed to be acquired.  

Some good news is that, contrary to false information disseminated by Internet web sites, a close review of the respective county planning and zoning ordinances show no laws or regulations which would prevent a landowner from erecting this type of fence in a non-residential zoned area on private property.  The fence is being erected on the edge of the front tier along the border—if the government can build such a fence, then our best legal advice says that a private property owner can also erect the same style of fence. 

We will this summer and fall complete the first 2.2 mile section of fence, meeting the requirements of the Ladd family.  As contributions will allow, we will complete just over 1.5 mile of the double layered Gaza-style fence as illustrated on our web site. 

I guess some people feel that it should be built based on their time schedule; however, we will build it as we see fit and by a timeline that works best for our volunteers and the courageous landowners who are stepping forward.
               
I find it interesting that those mouthing charges of skepticism against our fence building continue to claim “Minuteman” credentials.  It is just sad these people resort to making hollow accusations against our very public efforts while sending out letters that laud their “association” with the Minutemen on the border, and engage in private fund-raising campaigns based on alleging “corruption” within the Minuteman Civil Defense Corps fence building operation.  While we continue, step by step, to build—I wonder if the press will investigate the use of donations collected by these elements?

MCDC Finances
"Anybody who is any good is different from anybody else." —Felix Frankfurter

On a related topic, I guess it's time to counter another attack piece attempting to cast doubt upon the appropriations of donations to MCDC.  Not only are we constantly embattled by the open borders and anti-rule of law lobbyists, but now we seem to be constantly attacked by people who claim to be part of the secure borders movement, but are actually working under a thinly veiled, racist agenda.  Then we have those who disagreed with our approach to the border security problem and quit the organization only to continue to call themselves Minutemen, while assailing us with wild and vindictive allegations of improprieties.  We also have those who were terminated from MCDC for violating our code of conduct that is explicitly outlined in our standard operating procedures.

Some such people contacted a local Phoenix ABC television affiliate.  This hit piece, done by a local Phoenix ABC affiliate was prompted by “disclosures” offered ABC by two anti-Semites, who last April demanded that we allow them to manage Minuteman operations, including all of its funding, donations and crafting of our media message.  I rejected their “offer,” and my decision has proved to be a wise one.
 
Of course, we knew better than to let anyone with racialist history anywhere near MCDC, and obviously now have evidence that we made the correct decision in hiring clean professional consultants, accountants, media professionals who work for us to help us manage our business as the Minuteman Civil Defense Corps, sees fit.
 
In a classic yellow journalistic hit piece, the ABC reporter, using clever editing, made it seem as if MCDC volunteers were concerned about fiduciary responsibilities on the part of the organization.  The facts were that everyone they interviewed had either quit the organization or had been terminated and clearly had sour grapes because they did not meet MCDC standards. 

ABC even made it seem as if our volunteers had no porta-potties at the location of our border watch operations.  In one part of the report, a trusted and dedicated line leader was asked if porta-potties were available to volunteers.  What you did not see was that the volunteer was asked the question while on a scouting mission along one of our observation lines located far away from the base camp.  Of course, we don't provide porta-potties in the middle of nowhere, and the ABC reporter made it seem as though we were not providing volunteers with even bathroom facilities.  The same camera crew had full access to our base camp, our comms center, and the equipment center—and even used the porta-potties that we have always made available to our volunteers.

I've included a couple of photos, which clearly show the capital equipment that donations have been used to purchase.  Each and every border watch state—Texas, New Mexico, California, Arizona, Washington State, New York, Vermont and New Hampshire receives funding for equipment, operations and recruitment meetings.  Again I must emphasize the reporter's piece was full of lies, innuendo and crass conspiracy theories prompted and promoted by people who either quit the Minuteman Civil Defense Corps or were terminated due to a lack of integrity or a violation of our standard operating procedures.
 
All of our financial operations are overseen by professionals including a caging agency, banking institutions, a professional accountant, a professional auditor, a non-profits specialty attorney, etc.  All checks, credit card and any other cash donations received go directly into designated bank accounts, overseen by these professionals.  Yes, professionals we have hired (that means donations go to pay them for services) to ensure fiduciary integrity of the funds donated to the Minuteman Civil Defense Corps.  Everyone must realize that by hiring responsible and respected professionals we ensure the integrity of the operation and keep funds separated from the volunteer national leadership directors.    

By the way, no accredited professional financial institution or company would dare risk their livelihoods or their reputation by working for the MCDC if they did not believe in our cause and our integrity—nor would they risk the chance of violating the IRS regulations by playing monkey business with funds that come into this organization.  Not only would these professionals risk ruining their careers and their reputations, they risk violating federal laws and going to jail.
 
I wonder if those foolish enough to question the integrity of the finances of this operation would be willing to open their books, expose everything in their bank accounts or rely on unaccredited individuals to manage their finances?

So even though we've met every obligation and hired professional management there are still those from outside who seek to destroy our American citizens’ movement.

For those who just ask the question where does the money go—let me take you on just a short journey through a rapidly growing national movement.  The following is a list of just a few of the areas where the money goes to good use:

Web site development, updates to the web site, blast email communications, our database, updates to the database, computer equipment, which MCDC owns; servers, bandwidth for a web site that receives upwards of several hundred thousand hits or more each week. 

Let's talk about the phone systems and communications—most of our national leadership team or state directors have been provided Internet phones in their home offices at no personal charge, paid for by donations.  We have purchased and pay charges for cell phones provided for our field operations and our national directors. 

For the field, we have satellite phones, radio equipment, repeaters, antennae, extra radio batteries, battery chargers, flashlights, maps, dry erase boards, porta-potties.

How about background checks, ID cards, email blasts like this one—all our operations cost money.  We are constantly reaching out to find and educate more of our fellow Americans, which requires funds be expended for postage and fees for direct mailing, press releases that are professionally written, proofed, and distributed to the mainstream and alternative media (domestic and worldwide), etc.  The scheduling of hundreds of television and radio interviews is handled by a professional media firm, as is the placement of our national newspaper, email, and web advertisements.

We do cover some travel and fuel expenses for line leaders and the leadership team, who all work well beyond the average call of duty. 

We have used donations to purchase thermal imaging cameras, video cameras, third-generation night vision cameras, computer systems at each border watch headquarters operation, even Internet service at each border watch operation, where it is available. 

We help provide water, Gatorade, snacks, large tents and pop-up canopies for outdoor meetings; trailers to haul equipment, office supplies, a national headquarters building, the rent, the utilities, high-speed Internet connectivity at the national headquarters, computer systems at the national headquarters, phone systems at the national headquarters, the cost of printing letters, thousands of dollars in postage for membership mailings, the printing of brochures, the printing of banners used at gun shows, parades and recruiting events.  The rental of tables for gun shows, the rental of venues for meetings around the country—all are covered with the funds we receive from generous donors from around the country.

Our national leadership team does have their travel expenses covered when engaged in official Minuteman Civil Defense Corps business.  My travel expenses are covered by donations, but only when I am traveling for official Minuteman Civil Defense Corps business.  Most of my travel expenses are covered by organizations that request my presence at meetings, conferences and other speaking engagements.  When I am compensated to speak by a hosting organization, not only do I have the opportunity to travel around the country to educate people about the Minuteman Civil Defense Corps mission and the crisis at the border, but I also have the opportunity to recruit volunteers and solicit for donations to MCDC.  Only four of the dozens of trips that I have made in the last year have been paid for out of Minuteman Civil Defense Corps funds.  Those trips were to Washington D.C. to work with cooperative organizations and to talk to Congress—the total cost of those four trips comes to less than $3,000.

Our last two, month long border-watch operations cost around $80,000 each, and each 3-day monthly muster costs us at least $1,000 per state, not including travel expenses.

Each of our satellite chapters around the country has received start up funding and continues to be supported by the national organization.  Each new chapter receives approximately $1,000 in start up capital to cover expenses.  We have a rapidly expanding national organization that needs the support of aggressive national fundraising efforts—it costs money to raise money, but I assure you every penny is accounted for as federal law requires, and is utilized appropriately.

At this time we have a fully accredited, independent auditor undertaking a full accounting of the past years’ income and expenses.  We are completing federally mandated accounting and filing of our financial activity for the past year.  (Those conspiracy theorists out there forget that the #1 oversight committee on groups like ours is the IRS, aka the federal government, who would be the first to shut us down if there were any improprieties involved with our finances.)  We are required to submit our Form 990 filing to the IRS on November 15, 2006.

Once completed, our financial reports will be made available to the public, as required by law, and on the same timetable as all other non-profit organizations.  Those who wish to harm us want MCDC held to some other standard and to have us distracted and discredited in order to break our momentum.  We are staying on task, and they can take their intentions of destroying the greatest citizen movement to save the Republic this country has seen in recent history, and hike it.  I believe we have exposed their lack of credibility, we will continue to build, and I invite those whose falsehoods will be refuted by our results for the common good of America to forever be silenced.

There have also been many questions asked as to how I make a living.  I am not salaried by MCDC—otherwise, it is no one’s business.  I have never felt the need to publicly defend my integrity—above all else: to thine own self be true.

However, in light of the circumstances of malicious attacks, I will, this one last time, reveal personal information to answer the critics.

The hours of toil and sacrifice necessary to run this national organization has taken a toll on my personal life and has led to my shutting down my newspaper—The Tombstone Tumbleweed.  My present source of income has been the honorariums and fees received from organizations who request me for speaking engagements.  I have also received money from selling my life story for a movie that will soon go into production.  Even with those combined sources of income, I have made just enough to keep my head above water.  The remainder of my living expenses is covered by my devoted and dedicated wife, who shares my passion for the MCDC mission.

I do foresee a need come the new year for me to request a modest salary to maintain my role as president of MCDC.  If the board and national directors do not agree then it will be necessary for me to leave the organization and return to teaching—or I may need to go get a job at Wal-Mart or Home Depot!

With regular communication to you the volunteers and supporters of the Minuteman Civil Defense Corps, I hope to provide information that informs and assures you of the integrity of this healthy and expanding national grassroots organization.  I want to thank you personally for the privilege of working with you in this great and good cause.

With sincere gratitude for your courage and support of this great Republic,
Chris Simcox

President, Minuteman Civil Defense Corps

---

[Gelato]

Sorry, but your post is ridiculous. It's not the fault of the Minutemen if, per your hypothetical, an elderly person didn't know what he was donating to. This particular organization has made its purposes quite clear. Simcox said from the very beginning that the point of the fence project is to put extra pressure on the President to get his act together. You couldn't ask for a clearer stated objective.

Americans aren't so dumb as your post supposes. No one donating to the Minutemen expects civilians to now take over the role of the President to secure our borders. They know that at this stage, it is a symbolic gesture meant to get the President's attention.

Of course, the longer it takes for the President to act, the more you're going to see frustrated Americans willing to donate and volunteer to build fence and watch the border themselves. Perhaps after a few more years of negligence, Americans who want to preserve this country will seriously take border security into their own hands and build a fence at great personal sacrifice, as our Founding Fathers would.

Liberty-loving Americans have shown that can-do ability from the beginning.

[Spiff]

{Chirp....ChirpChirp....Chirp...}

[EternalVigilance]

Gosh, it's been nearly two hours since their last chortle.

I wonder why...

[catholicfreeper]

The reason this is important is not because response unlimited or other groups is something illegal. This is a business I understand that. The point is that this debate on immigration is being manupulated in order to keep the bucks flowing. When you start connecting the dots half the direct mail internet alerts and everything else that is telling me how conservatives should think on this issue are controlled by these folks. Is there anything illegal about that no. But it should be exposed when people are making judgment calls about issues and who they trust to get the facts.

This fence thing is the best money maker they have had since the Clintons. Of course they want to keep it going. This is about opw in part the conservative movement is being wrecked and eating its own because many"conservtives make $$$$$$$$$$$.

It is a pretty simple concept really

[Spiff]

The reason this is important is not because response unlimited or other groups is something illegal. This is a business I understand that. The point is that this debate on immigration is being manupulated in order to keep the bucks flowing. When you start connecting the dots half the direct mail internet alerts and everything else that is telling me how conservatives should think on this issue are controlled by these folks. Is there anything illegal about that no. But it should be exposed when people are making judgment calls about issues and who they trust to get the facts.

This fence thing is the best money maker they have had since the Clintons. Of course they want to keep it going. This is about opw in part the conservative movement is being wrecked and eating its own because many"conservtives make $$$$$$$$$$$.

You're so wrong. I knew Chris Simcox when he had about 8 people in his CHD group in Cochise County where I live. He got together with Jim Gilchrist, whom I also had acquaintance with before the words Minuteman Project ever passed his lips, and they put together a tiny, little "FReep" on the border. The momentum grew and the scope of the Minuteman Project grew over time with an operational split to cover specific missions.

The direct mail company didn't invent Chris Simcox or Jim Gilchrist just like they didn't invent the RNC, George W. Bush, the National Rifle Association, and other conservative groups and candidates that they list as clients. The direct mail company is no more driving the immigration reform/border security issue than they're driving the social conservative issues and trying to get George W. Bush elected just to make a profit. You've got a real problem with logic and causation and your argument is ridiculous.

What is driving the issue is a REAL concern about the negative effects that our poorly secured borders and our unenforced immigration laws are having on our nation. Then, we have the Democrats and a few liberal Republicans (and unfortunately the President) trying to pass another amnesty and THAT is what is driving the issue. Not trying to raise funds, make profits, or elect a specific candidate here and there. The issue has been growing over the years and has finally come to a boil once another Democrat-sponsored amnesty was supported by the President.

The debate is being manipulated by monied and powerful special interests who care nothing about our sovereignty and our national security nor the terrible impact that unfettered illegal immigration and a lack of law enforcement have on our communities. Instead these interests are all about access to the cheapest, most exploitable labor possible despite any consequences to society. These people and corporate entities wield incredible power inside the beltway. It is David & Goliath as these special interests are being fought by the conservative grassroots.

The direct mail companies are no more at fault than the campaign sign companies, the hotel chains and convention centers that house the party conventions, the airlines that fly political candidates and speakers all over the country, etc. You imagine a conspiracy where none exists in order to invent more dirt to fling at the conservatives who are seeking a CONSERVATIVE solution to the border security and immigration law enforcement problems.

And the conservatives are not eating their own. The conservatives are steadfast on the issue of securing the borders, upholding the rule of law, and not rewarding lawbreakers with amnesty and citizenship. It is the so-called moderates (aka. liberals) in the party and elsewhere who are attacking the conservatives and making such a noise about how "divisive" the issue is.

It is precisely the same tactic that the Democrats in Congress take whenever the Republicans do anything slightly Republican. The Republicans support Republican legislation, the Democrats scream and viciously attack them for committing such a heinous act, and then they start whining about how "divisive" the Republicans are being. You're doing exactly the same thing that Pelosi and Reid do on a nearly daily basis.

[catholicfreeper]

I didn't say that the direct mail companies created these folks. But they are certaintly using them. That is all fine it is great to make a buck. However let me say as to what conservatives think on this issue. It seems to be alot more divergent than certain groups want to let on. I see that in everyday life. I see that in things like the tarrence poll.

This issue goes beyond this of course. I am getting more concerned about the real affect by a few on major issues. This amero and North American union thing and jerome Corsi is a prime example. It is amazing the trash you have to go through till you find a credible source. But this stuff is starting to spread too. What is the next issue? Sorry, I have seen honarable conservatives called traitors sellsout and rino way to much because they didn't fall in line on issue x. That has gotten much worse in the past year and a half. This is but a symptom of that.

Right now some people are doing more damage to conservatives than Pelosi could ever do. God helps us when they get a better public face.

[EternalVigilance]

You're full of it.

[catholicfreeper]

Yeah Well while I am full of it I found this
http://www.responseenterprises.com/

Wow, so when you pay your memership fees and background checks fees for the minutemen you go through this company that on there web site says:

you have a charge on your credit card that you do not recognize, please browse the below list of organizations that utilize our payment processing services.

We provide payment services for:

RightMarch and RightMarch PAC
MinutemanHQ and Minuteman Civil Defense Corps (MCDC)
Minuteman Border Fence
Minuteman Border Patrol Volunteer Registrations
The Minuteman Project (MMP)
Society for Truth and Justice (Randall Terry)
Terry Family Trust (Randall Terry)
Jim Gilchrist for Congress
United States Justice Foundation - Hillary Accountability Project (HillCAP)
Operation Completion
Free Enterprise Fund
Spencer for Senate
Many Others

Oh and guess who owns this? wait a little suspense drumroll please
from the whois machine
Registration Service Provided By: Active-Domain Co.
Contact: registrar@active-domain.com

Domain name: responseenterprises.com

Registrant Contact:
Response Enterprises
Philip Zodhiates (sam@ru-lists.com)
+1.5409436721
Fax:
284 Shalom Road
Waynesboro, VA 22980
US

Wow, that name seems familar. lol

But no connection , no connection whatever this is all on the up and up

I am sure that bids were sent out for this to make sure that the best service at the best cost could be had so that every dollar spent ,donated by granny, on this fence is well spent

No conection at all I am sure this just happened by the gift of providence. This organization has no connection with this folks. In post 236 Spiff basically said no connection no one knows anybody with al these different groups

Just to recap. So the minuteman who are a "educational Project" under Declaration alliance to which I believe this gentlemen is associated with not only has a business that handles the processing of money for this group, but he also owns responseunlimited who sell yalls mailing list and his partner owns Diener Consultants who is has been hired to supervise this and do many more important task.

Yep no one knows anyone- I am sure that Grandma in the nursing home would be well pleased how her part of social security check is being spent on this project

[Spiff]

As I said, the companies that provide direct mail fundraising sometimes provide other services as well. Apparently, Response Unlimited provided a web-based donation service to MCDC as well as other organizations and candidates. I don't know what you think you uncovered or what you think is wrong about what you found.

They listed their web-based donation service clients just like they listed their direct mail clients as I posted earlier. The Direct Mail services seem to operate under Response Unlimited and the web-based donation services apparently operate under Response Enterprises. What "connection" do you think you've made in your desperate attempt to find anything with which to smear Chris Simcox and the MCDC.

You know, if you "dig", you may "uncover" the fact that Free Republic is "connected" to the Free Republic Network and to Robinson-DeFehr Consulting, LLC and it all leads to a shadowy figure who calls himself "Jim Robinson". What a conspiracy!!! < /sarcasm >

Here's a little sage advice for you:

It is better to keep your mouth shut and let people think you are a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt." -- Mark Twain

[EternalVigilance]

You're really not very good at this.

[catholicfreeper]

You know there is nothing "illegal" about this as to how this is set up. But one could and should ask if this is all a bit unproper. You see also this is quite different than Free Republic. Free Republic the last time I look isnt basically trying to pass itself off as a charity like organization that is building a 55 million dollar fence. Is any of this illegal the way it is set up. No probaly not at least not yet from the minor digging that has been done But it is pretty improper though. If some Pr firm(Driener- ) perhaps wants to justify that a significant portion of every dollar donated isgoing to organizations that are all interelated and owned by the same folks that are connected with oversight of this fence and project then more power to them. I jus t suspect a good percentage would object because this very scenario raises the even more questions. Bad move IMHO

But please lets stop the charade and quit thinking that no one knows anybody or the non profit 503 organization is not spinning off a lot of dough to their friends. Too some it won't matter . To others it will.

IS this a fraud? Is therea personsor persons that are quite aware that no fence will be built and this is just to continue the $ for Keyes and friends. Whom well common sense tells me something is happening. But again that may or may not be happening. I have seen enough to raise a ton of red flags. That is why groups that do this sort of thing are not set up this way.

[catholicfreeper]

Alright let me put it this way
OK here is what I am driving at
Lets say a Preacher on TV wants to build Houses for the poor. Sort of like a Habitat for humanity type thing and he is going to do it through donations.

Now are you tellig me that if that Preacher that asked for those donations to build houses gave the business to his own Construction Company, paid his own Direct mail Company to solicit donation, paid his own financial company to handle the donations, and gave his Cousin earl the contract to do the subcontrracting work that that would be proper. All these business of course are actually paid out of every dollar recieved. Now that is improper. I can't see how in the World this is any different.

[EternalVigilance]

Right. And if your pizza had olives, it would be a martini...

/s

[EternalVigilance]

Right. And if your pizza had olives, it would be a martini...

/s

[Texasforever]

All donations are secured in a federal financial institution—a bank, and may be applied only towards the fence building enterprise. The funds cannot be used in any other way.

How do you reconcile that statement with the fact that money is being spent for everything BUT building the fence?

[Amelia]

How do you reconcile that statement with the fact that money is being spent for everything BUT building the fence?

Thanks, that was my major point.

[Texasforever]

I don't really expect an answer.

[onyx]

His pizza has olives so he's deemed it a martini.

Hence, just because we can't see the fence, it doesn't mean it's not there.

[Amelia]

Now are you tellig me that if that Preacher that asked for those donations to build houses gave the business to his own Construction Company, paid his own Direct mail Company to solicit donation, paid his own financial company to handle the donations, and gave his Cousin earl the contract to do the subcontrracting work that that would be proper.

To make the analogy complete, you'd have to have 95 cents of every dollar going to the direct mail company and the financial company, and only a nickel of each dollar going to build houses for the poor.

That's the way the PAC of MCDP's "parent company", the Declaration Alliance, works, and I'll bet that when the public report comes out in NOVEMBER we'll see something similar from MCDP.

Of course, they COULD make their financials public now, but don't hold your breath.

[Texasforever]

It is a force field.