“Illegals” hysteria & the place I can’t go

http://theanchoressonline.com/ ^ | 5/26/06 | anchoress

[davidosborne]

It has come to my attention that ALL members of the JUDICIARY COMMITTEE will participate in the conference on the immigation bill..

Our battle is not with the Senators who voted on the "Senate Version" on the bill....the two bill are "oceans" apart.. with the house version being a MUCH BETTER BILL !! our battle is with the Senators who will go to conference with house.. which I just found out will be ALL MEMBERS of the Judiciary Committee and then some additional Senators yet to be named by Reid and Frist !!!...

WE NEED TO LET THESE FOLKS KNOW that we SUPPORT THE HOUSE VERSION !! NOT THE SENATE VERSION !!! now get er done !!

---> for now we can focus our efforts on the JUDICIARY COMMITTEE MEMEBERS !!!

Arlen Specter Orrin G. Hatch Patrick J. Leahy Charles E. Grassley Edward M. Kennedy Jon Kyl Joseph R. Biden, Jr. Mike DeWine Hrbert Kohl Jeff Sessions Dianne Feinstein Lindsey Graham Russell D. Feingold John Cornyn Charles E. Schumer Sam Brownback Richard J. Durbin Tom Coburn

I have written an OPEN LETTER to the conferees and I encouge EVERYONE who cares about this to do the same.... feel free to copy/edit/distribute my letter..

MY OPEN LETTER TO CONFEREES

[claudiustg]

--- “The black kids all want to be rappers and athletes, and the white kids think the sweat is beneath them. The Asian kids are all going to college to become doctors.” But the Hispanic kids want to learn.---

Nice stereotype! Not much to do with reality though.

[rcocean]

What an awful blog. I didn't get through the whole thing since she rambles on and on from one point to another.

But boiled down, she just repeats the same old "open borders" rhetoric.

To whit:

-If you want the immigration laws enforced you're a racist.
-If you don't want 1 million illegals coming into the country every year you're a heartless, cold conservative.
-If you're against the Senate bill - you're hysterical and a right-wing kook.
- One million *Legal* immigrants every year isn't enough, we need more.
- All illegal immigrants are hardworking, the salt of the earth.
- I'm a (son) daughter of immigrants, so listen to me.

No facts, no reasons, just strawman arguments, and tired old rhetoric.

[catholicfreeper]

Well, I ma not sure I am guilty of Biblical or Christian liberalism here. It just not very clear to me that in some of the Biblical passages that the Holy SPirit is trying to enlighten us about immigration

[catholicfreeper]

The answer is no but see post 38 for my fuller explanation

[catholicfreeper]

I have no "target audience" assignment. IN fact if you noticed I was among several here whose main preoccupation the last couple of weeks was the NOLA elections and making sure a Dem Family(Landrieus)was wounded. I have to point out that this obsession with agents and infiltrators gets bizarre. There is a whole room on another conservative forum where they comment on threads here and speculate who is being paid by the RNC.

[catholicfreeper]

So true, I have to admit its quite startling how this anti free trade movement got such foothold in the conservative movement. Its always been there but not like this. In part, I think its become associated with many people in the immigration debate. I was on some immigration forums last night and saw threads devoted to the subject. I saw some thread yesterday talking about how the Govt had planned to merge Mexico, Canada, and the USA together. Well the same guy that authored this article also is the co author with Gilchrist on a book on the minutemen. At times, I am wondering what is tgoing on.

[Molly T.]

Amen to all you said....you can count me in the latter camp.Just mind boggling to observe our own gov. so involved in doing everything they can to destroy us as a sovereign, independent nation. The past administrations, both Dem. and Rep. are equally responsible.

Makes me heartsick to know my grandkids and their kids will never know the America I grew up in.Most of America is "asleep at the wheel" and by the time they wake up, it'll be far too late. I 'm thinking, especially after the fiasco we've been witnessing these past few weeks with this illegal mess, that we may well be too far down the slippery slope to be able to turn back.

[dixiechick2000]

Thank you, Leni!

I've been waiting for some reaction
about this poster...or should I say

poseur?


Main Entry: po·seur
Pronunciation: pO-'z&r
Function: noun
Etymology: French, literally, poser, from poser
: a person who pretends to be what he or she is not : an affected or insincere person


So far...crickets

[Uriah_lost]

I foresee our being relegated to permanent minority status as a party if this continues as it is now.....

[hellinahandcart]

Well, I ma not sure I am guilty of Biblical or Christian liberalism here.If you want to avoid confusion, you should quit stealing themes from Hillary Clinton. You know, the whole "this bill would have criminalized Jesus" schtick.

The Holy Family went where God told them to go, end of story. Whether Egypt was aware of their presence or not is not only unknowable to you, but completely irrelevant to the topic of illegal immigration.

It just not very clear to me that in some of the Biblical passages that the Holy SPirit is trying to enlighten us about immigration

Speaking of clarity, that sentence doesn't have any. Are you trying to say "It is just NOT very clear to me" or "It is just NOW very clear to me"?

If it's the latter, I am not impressed. At the 2003 General Convention, a majority of Episcopal bishops said with a straight face that the Holy Spirit was trying to enlighten the world about the sanctity of committed same-sex relationships, through the election of an active homosexual as Bishop of New Hampshire.

Oh, and nice way to weasel out of supporting your statement about the nation-states of Biblical times vs. today.

[FredZarguna]

Why do I do not view this as Amnesty? Well, they do have to admit guilt. They have to pay fines, taxes etc.

No, they do not. This is where you've fundamentally gone wrong. There is no enforcement mechanism, and no bureaucracy exists or will be funded to ever create one. The provisions--even if correct in principle (they are not)--would still fail the smell test because they cannot be enforced.

I have heard 11 years in some proposals before they can even apply to be citizens. I really don't care if people want to add more provisions.

Nor should you care, because none of those provisions would ever be enforced. The illegals will be permitted to use fraudulent documents in support of their longevity claims.

Here, I've got it! Let's add this provision: All illegals will need to fly to the moon before they can apply for citizenship. Well, now I feel better. Now McCain can claim we should all feel better because no illegal can ever meet the requirement. Except, of course, there will be plenty of them who can confirm absolutely that their name is Neil Armstrong.

I really do marvel at the cognitive dissonance of supposedly intelligent people who think we can't round up 14 million illegals on one hand, but on the other hand believe we can actually verify all their documents, their time in country, and certify their English proficiency as well. What, if any, thought process are you using?

Again, the family issue is what probally drives me most as to this issue.

Like most liberals, you're a victim of your own false compassion. If these folks would work as hard to destroy the socialist economy of Mexico as they do when they get here, they'd be living in a country as prosperous as Canada or the United States. By coming here, they are denying the 90% of people who stay in Mexico any hope of ever having a decent country. And so are you. And so are the criminal employers who hire them.

Your "compassion" is false. I have two former illegals in my own family who were given Amnesty in 1986. I think they're great people, and they think that they've been treated well in America--but they haven't been. They've participated in an immoral system that uses human beings for hard physical labor under substandard, submarket conditions and then discards them when they're used up. They have no pension, no savings, and no Social Security (they were over 60 years old in 1986). This isn't going to be remedied by your Amnesty program. The same employers who hired illegals after the 1986 Amnesty will simply refuse to hire the newly minted Americans, and continue to go with undocumented workers. The new "Americans" will refuse to use their documented status so they can continue to be employed by people who have as little regard for the law as they have.

Please do tell me how a person who claims to be a Christian can be a willing participant in a system that involves this level of criminality and greed by American employers, and destroys a country that has plenty of Christian, hardworking people, and is fabulously rich in natural resources to boot.

This isn't compassion, and it isn't Christian. It's an empathy that allows you to feel good about yourself for pretending to be doing something "kind" and "generous," when in fact you're helping to destroy peoples lives; when in fact, you're an ENABLER.

In short: it's liberalism.

Get off the soapbox dear. Christianity requires a serious moral vision, and you don't have one any more than does the man handing a bum a dollar for a drink, because he wants him to go away.

[Xenalyte]

I have a suggestion if you don't like my post don't read them.

The way FR works at my house is that the poster's name is at the bottom of the thread. Unless we want eye strain and headaches, we tend to read down. That would mean most of us see your posts before we see your name.

[davidosborne]

[catholicfreeper]

Since you and I have not got off to best start I thought I would offer congrats since it appears you are a Mississippi girl. Ugh MISS State, Ole Myth(and wins the SEC Tournament), Southern Miss all in the the NCAA regionals and LSU out for the first time in 17 years. This is an sign of the Apocalypse http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1640155/posts?page=7

[bpjam]

I'm with you on this one. If John Cornyn could write the Senate bill, I think we could have some workable, compassionate as well as just. And we wouldn't have to jettison our sovereignty, laws or identity to do it.

[WOSG]

"Yes I was stunned hearing how it was all a plot by "Big Business" to keep wages down and oppress the "little guy" Excuse me? When did Rush become a Perotista? That was their argument about NAFTA."

Apples v Oranges. I am a NAFTA supporter, and you dont have to be against NAFTA to know our immigration system is broken down and that illegal immigration is creating tremendous costs and negative consequences for us.

Now, what is a small Govt, pro-rule-of-law, realistic conservative to do? What *NOT* to do is an amnesty/legalization that will surely make the problem worse.

If you believe in free markets, then you believe in incentives, you believe PEOPLE RESPOND TO INCENTIVES.
ANY FREE MARKET CONSERVATIVE HAS TO CONCLUDE THAT AN AMNESTY WILL RESULT IN MORE FUTURE ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION. People see an incentive given that rewards illegal immigration behavior - WE GET MORE OF IT.


"Then it was the "Elites want to send your jobs to Mexico" which Rush laughed at. NOW, it "The Elites want Mexicans to come here and take your job" and it is RUSH saying it!"

Given that the senate bill was written by special interests (how do I know? I *read* the bill! It stinks!), it's not unfathonable. Moreover, seeing explicit actions by businesses to hire from illegal immigrant labor pools, to outsource, etc., all make people realize this as part of reality.

I mean, seriously, can it be *disputed* that businesses are wanting a bigger labor pool? It seems the debate is between one side saying "jobs that Americans wont do" and another side saying "taking away jobs from Americans". Neither is fully right nor wrong on that, but there are plenty of working stiffs who will tell you they cant make the same wages they used to at certain trades now plyed by illegals.

"When the "True Conservatives" start using the same Class warfare and economic arguements of the Wacko Left, it all over."

Ahem, you know the Senate bill *PROPONENTS* put in the Davis-Bacon regulations? Did you know that Ted Kennedy put in self-sponsorship, so the 'temp worker', even if unemployed, could become a permanent resident. You know that they made it 'just cause' firing, instead of 'at will' for citizens. Again, free market conservatives are supposed to ahate that stuff. CIRA bill is loaded with it.

The Senate CIRA bill regulates wages, employment contracts, and industries in ways are true free marketeers would find appalling.

Bottom-line: Being pro-free-market and against the Senate CIRA bill and its amnesty is a consistent position.

[mthom]

"I think one problem is that the modern nation-state that we know today is quite different from the state of Biblical times."

Dont worry. Thanks, in part, to those who support this amnesty, the nation-state is on its way out.

[mthom]

Exactly. Its an argument Ive heard a few times. Even from Bush. A general call for civility and respect for others views followed by defining the range of views that are "acceptable" to hold. Those views tend to resemble McKennedy typically.