Posted on 05/16/2006 11:57:27 PM PDT by vertolet
Let's explore that article a little more fully, otherwise, people won't understand the exact impact and involvement of various ethnicities in the leadership and decision-making hierarchy of the secret services:
Leadership (the guys who made the decisions):
13 Men
3 Russians (M. S. Kedrov, I.K. Ksenofontov, and V.N. Mantsev)
3 Jews (S. A. Messing, N. S. Unshlikht, and G.G. Yagoda)
2 Latvian (M. Y. Latsis, and Y. Kh. Petere) , äâîå ïîëÿêîâ 2 Poles (F. Eh. Dzerzhinskyj and V. R. Menzhinskij)
1 Ukrainian G. I. Bokij
1 Belarus F. D. Medved'
1 Armenian V. A. Avanesov
These are the guys who ensured the crimes committed by you Soviets and Warsaw Pact countries were implemented.
Furthermore, this is the workers for the Central Apparatus.
When you delve into the ethnic make up of the field units, such as those who enforced the de-kulakification, you find much higher numbers of Ukrainians. Also, the majority of SMERSH members were Jews and Ukrainians. This, according to Ukrainian NKVD legend - PAvel Sudoplatov. And others, writing about the OGPU, ChK, NKVD, MGB, and KGB.
Look, you know damn well there were and remain dedicated Ukrainian communists and plenty of Ukrainians who still see Russia as a friend and the US as an enemy. I can provide plenty of first-hand examples, and plenty of written sources as well.
Bottom line to all of you "former" communists from Eastern Europe. YOU ALL SHARE THE BLAME. That's right. Each and every one of you are complicit in these crimes and you should be apologizing to the rest of the world for allowing it to go on for so long.
And before you say, "I wasn't communist" or "I didn't support the regime" - let me ask you this: Did you attend college in your home country? Did you get a referral from the draft? (And you know EXACTLY why the answers to these two question [if you are honest in your answer] will show you supported the communist regime).
And your comments about the Civil War and the US. There is a perfect example of how people in the US don't continue to fight the battles of yesteryear. If we did, our country would be a mess.
Probably in Poland it was the same as in SU, joining the party can't be described as voluntary. It's somewhere between blackmail and gangster extortion. Anyone who wanted to be in a leadership position (industrial manager, company director, government bureaucrat, engineer, higher ranking officer, educator, etc.) had to be a party member. No party- no money. If I was born 30 years earlier I would have been a proud party member as well. lol. Study Scientific Communism in university, pass an exam, and voila.
And then argue. in an American forum, intricacies of dialectic materialism. :)
Polish CP didn’t committed such crimes. If you mean only Dzierzynski, I may only repeat that he was nobody in Poland and the Russians made him important in Moscow. So this is their problem if he committed crimes against them.
Furthermore, the Polish CP made the decision to invade, with Russia and others, Czechoslavkia - a crime against the Czechs and Slovaks. Your military men killed Czechs and Slovaks
Of course that decision was made in Moscow. Furthermore Polish troops didn’t killed even a single Czech or Slovak, so stop with your propaganda.
Also, the Polish military FOUGHT AGAINST THE AMERICAN MILITARY in the Vietnam War on the side of the Soviets and North Vietnamese. Each member who was assigned to Vietnam was strictly a volunteer and had to go through a selection board to be allowed to go fight.
What a joke! I bet that you would find more Americans whom fought on the side of Nazi Germany than Poles in Vietnam. You are totally dishonest person who is ready to write any kind of BS, only to defend its agenda.
and I suggest to end this very boring and predictable discussion, we simply cannot agree
You are in such a state of strong denial. First of all and foremost. Communism is a criminal ideology - therefore, ANYONE involved in Communism is a criminal and supported the crimes Communism thrust upon the world.
Perhaps you'd like to tell us the number of your partynyj bilet? I didn't think so. You too were a communist. Therefore you were a criminal. When are you going to apologize to Western society for being a part of the communist regime in Poland.
Second of all, Polish military members went to Vietnam. Don't take my word for it - contact the Polish organization KARTA - they can tell you all about it. And while you at it, ask them to describe to you the communist crimes Poland was involved in.
Basically what you are saying Lukasz is only Russian communists were bad - the other communists weren't. Which is quite understandable for you to say. After all, if you admitted that Polish communists were criminals you'd be personally confessing to being a criminal.
Perhaps you'd also like to tell us how you managed to get a visa to Belarus to observe the elections when only people friendly to the Lukashenko regime were allowed to monitor the elections. I think we really do know what you really are. Maybe you should go spout your government-subsidized propaganda somewhere else. Personally, I don't like agents of foreign governments, like you, coming on American conservative forums and attempting to manipulate public opinon.
That's exactly what I am saying. You made a choice then and there. Either you took the path that would allow you more privilege and benefits than those who didn't join the communist party OR you refused to join a corrupt and criminal organization. If you took the path to benefits then you supported the Communist Party regime - whether you were a dedicated communist or not.
Now that the Soviet Union has fallen you all try to paint yourselves as "victims" - as your last post has proven, you knew damn well what you were doing when you chose to get benefits from the CP.
I was born in 1981, so figure out. But you are for sure some kind of confident of KREMLIN.
At least some of your fellow Poles recognize they participated in crimes:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4171966.stm
And of course Poland was more than eager to help the Soviets:
"On the night of August 20 Dubcek was arrested and dragged off to Russia or Poland, along with several of his colleagues. The next day a massive invasion of Czechoslovakia by some 200,000 troops from Russia, Poland, Bulgaria, East Germany, and Hungary began. Dubcek agreed to renounce his ideals and submit."
But according to Lukasz, the Polish troops just sat around and didn't kill anyone. Right (/sarcasm)
And regarding Americans helping the Nazis. I'll bet you $$$$ that there were less Americans helping the Nazis then Poles.
Polish troops didn't killed anybody, they stepped and found no opposition. If you claims otherwise, source please.
Were you parents communists? Grandparents? I'll bet they were. I'll also be willing to be you grew up privileged.
I'm not a confidant of the Kremlin, Tovarisch - I am American military veteran who heard our great President Ronald Reagan's call to service - that call was to defeat communism. And that we did. But we didn't do it so you Poles, Russians, Ukrainians, etc., could waste that victory over Communism by spiraling into ethnic-based hatred and other such nonsense. You guys are doing so much harm to Reagan's legacy when you should be thankful that America produced such a leader. He'd be appalled at this b.s.
"Polish troops didn't killed anybody, they stepped and found no opposition. If you claims otherwise, source please."
You've GOT to be kidding me. Amazing. Yeah, Poles didn't kill anybody, the Germans had no idea the Nazis were killing Jews, and Elvis is alive and well in St. Louis.
"During the attack of the Warsaw Pact armies, 72 Czechs and Slovaks were killed (19 of those in Slovakia) and hundreds were wounded (up to September 3, 1968)"
" you extend the time until the end of '68, then there were 92 or 94 deaths —including victims of traffic accidents and so on. But there were cases where Soviet forces and Warsaw Pact forces, killed people also in September ['68 and later months]; there was a case in eastern Bohemia where a drunken Polish soldier killed two people and wounded several others. Under this new bill, [there would be compensation] also for victims of crimes committed by communist soldiers, rapes of women, and so on, cases that occurred much later, between '69 and '91. But the majority of the cases belong to the first week after the [August 21, 1968] invasion."
If you think that you false posting cause my harsh reaction and will lead to a ban. Then it is just your wet dream. Get over troll.
nothing about Poles
The Polish Institute of National History has contributed a lot of material, including some black-and-white footage of the self-immolation of a Polish man, in protest of the Polish involvement in the invasion of Czechoslovakia. I asked the Polish Ambassador to the Czech Republic, Andrzej Krawczyk, whether the participation of his country in the Prague exhibition can be understood as an apology.
Andrzej Krawczyk, photo: www.ipn.gov.pl"There is a whole movement in Poland nowadays and I am proud as a Pole, as a Polish citizen. I think that there is a sign of moral health that we have a feeling that we must again and again talk about it, be concerned about it, say we apologise. And there is a warning for the future."
You need to take a little visit to your National Institute of History - they will explain to you how the Polish troops engaged in crimes against the Czechs during Prague Spring.
Nice - I'm a troll, funny, I didn't see you at the Freeper "Impeach Clinton Rally" in DC in 1996. But that would make me a troll.
Look it's obvious you work for a government-funded organization. You claim you were an election observor in Belarus. Only those friendly to Lukashenko were able to get visas to observe the elections.
So, you do the math: Lukasz: from a "former" Communist country that isn't friendly to Belarus, but Lukasz, somehow still gets a visa to "monitor" Belarusian elections. You're leftist roots are showing.
I hope you're getting paid overtime for your work on here.
Romanov confused two of us (He is simply unable do write a true about anything), but he suggest that you are communist :)
Yep, if I confused the issue of the election observor - my bad. Doesn't change my opinion about the type of person allowed in to observe elections. And doesn't change my opinion that denial about Polish or Ukrainian or Russian involvement in communism is harmful.
May bet is on the latter :-)))
Especially the brand new converts.
They are usually more fanatic than genuine worshippers.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.