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To: AntiGuv

I'm just a free thinker who has spent a fair amount of time trying to understand God, based on scripture.

"Hmm.. For some reason I was under the impression that you were a Calvinist. The Calvinist god is a dualist god who enacts both good and evil."

I think along those lines. God creates all things. Therefore, He creates infinite variety. He also creates Free Will, the opportunity to choose evil, and opportunity for Eternal Life. He knows exactly how we are going to choose. Yet there is an aspect of God, sometimes found in the scriptures, that is amazed, that marvels, that is surprised. So one consciousness of God may not be able to foresee all things.

Jesus, quite clearly, was not able to foresee absolutely everything, such as when He asked the Bitter Cup to be passed from Him. Seems to me He felt doubt. He also chided his followers for sleeping that night, as though he wanted them to keep watch. That would not be needed if Jesus knew absolutely everything.[But He did know everything He was required to know.] Also, when He allowed Legion to enter the pigs, it's not clear He wanted them to run off the cliff and thus, He was alienated from that area.

But the Heavanly Father, I often wonder if His consciousness is not completely merged with the Son's. Just as we have a subconscious, perhaps the Father communicates with the Son in a similar, even more sophisticated way. And it is obvious to me that the Father is capable of incredible ruthlessness. Just look at this world of death that we were cast into for being sinners.

"I have no logical dispute with that formulation, aside from the absence of evidence that a god exists in the first place."

Note that in the book of Daniel, Alexander the Great was predicted, and if that doesn't grab you, Daniel also predicted the increase of travel and knowledge. Peter predicted that one day the entire surface of the earth would dissolve. Revelations predicted a World Court that would pass judgement over the entire earth. And BTW, the sun was not created on the first day, so I'm not a hardcore believer that the earth was created in six solar days. And Revelation spoke of 200 million 'dragons' one day crossing the Euphrates, which will one day dry up. [Think China.]

"The only thing we'd really have to debate is whether we can call him a "dualist" god or whether we can only describe him precisely as a "dualist" god would be described but without using that term.."

I tell you, He is what He is. My main concern is how to be His friend. It's a good idea, believe me. Our knowledge of God is, quite obviously flawed. We, with our puny, limited minds, can't figure out our own subconscious minds, let alone the mind of God. Trying to understand Him before meeting Him is much like trying to understand an elephant before seeing it, only worse.

"If you are an Arminian, then that's different. The Arminian god must be a self-limited god much as Ichneumon described."

God does limit Himself through promises.

FRegards....


240 posted on 07/22/2005 1:23:47 PM PDT by Arthur Wildfire! March (The High Priest of Baby Killers. People don't call Schumer 'Upchuck' for nothing.)
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To: Arthur Wildfire! March
You raise some intriguing points that I want to think over and get back to you later (I have to go here in a few minutes). FWIW, I've actually been questioning my lack of faith these last couple weeks. I'll briefly explain why.

A couple weeks ago (on Sunday, of course ;^) I was drawn into a family dispute that involves matters of faith. When reflecting upon it, I was quite taken aback by the immense hostility and contempt that I expressed toward the entire subject of faith. In short, my conclusion is that I have unresolved issues.

Now, the fact that I have unresolved issues is hardly any kind of revelation to me by any stretch of the imagination. However, I've been wondering how much of my abandonment of faith may be due to said unresolved issues rather than to intellectual reasoning. I find this somewhat disconcerting, since it leads me to wonder whether in the absence of such unresolved issues I would reach the same conclusion with regard to faith (or lack thereof).

So, nothing may very well come of it in the end, but I am presently questioning my (dis)beliefs.

247 posted on 07/22/2005 1:54:03 PM PDT by AntiGuv (™)
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