The Once And For All Terri Schiavo's NOT Vegetative Thread!

Excellent post and much needed.

Terri's estranged husband won't allow Terri's parents to care for her. He won't divorce her. He waited until after insurance money was awarded and spent to remember that she had said she wouldn't want to live that way. He has a total conflict of interest.

I posted it once, and I'm sorry if you don't like exclamation points!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;) I guess it doesn't work for you, huh?

If there is ANY doubt as to the intentions of the husband, what is the harm in keeping her alive, with her parents? You surely are a mighty trusting soul. If these parents say they want to take care of her, and also say that her husband has meant and continues to mean her harm for possibly self-serving purposes, should that not at least be looked at. I choose to believe the parents in this case, not the death culture.

As to who has the right to interfere, law inforcement does. Terri can't speak for herself, she needs to have others speak for her who are not OBVIOUSLY compromised. This should be thoroughly investigated to the satisfaction of Terri's protectors. Who's to say that her "husband" is telling the truth?

By the way, I think it is a bit obtuse to see those films and not see that she is responding to outside stimuli. Did you see her eyes following the balloon. If you err you must err on the side of life and not death.

I'll believe the evidence of my eyes. If I'm wrong, so be it. Lot's of "experts" have been wrong, like the ones who said a woman's feeding tube should be removed who later woke from a years long coma, the experts who said we would never fly, never walk on the moon, and as I recall lots of experts said the earth was flat at one point. Go to Terrisfight.org and read about Terri's tragedy from the parent's perspective. There are also several credible people who's perspective is that Terri IS reponsive. They should at least be given a chance.

By the way, please cite your source for these "experts."

None of the care Terri is getting requires care in a facility.

It would be intensive but she could be managed at home by a couple of reasonably prudent adults.

Gee, I guess her parents should have consulted you first before they posted it at the web-site. Why do you say this video is bogus, just out of curiosity?

Thanks. The MSM are all helping to kill Terri.

Where did you get your medical degree from?

Try a little logic.

Husband goes to court to sue the physicians and hospital. Claims he needs the money to see to it his wife gets the rehabilitation she needs and to take care of her for the next 40 years.

Husband gets the money.

Husband shacks up with another woman, making babies and withdraws rehabilitation from his wife and initiates efforts to cause her death.

The supposed rememberance of her wishes not to "live like that" only came after he had money in the bank.

Do you honestly think the "husband in name only" is an honest broker.

If those are your wishes then put it in writing.

BUMP

Good point. Also consider this posted from a hospital site:

Q: Do patients in persistent or permanent vegetative states experience pain or suffering?

A: No. The parts of the brain necessary for consciousness, that feel pain or suffering, are not working. Moving their arms or legs in response to unpleasant feelings or sounds are only reflexes.

I repeat my question. Why does this supposedly vegetative woman need pain medication?

It was not in her will. She had no living will or DNR order.

All the disruptive trolls are on the death to Terri side and.....they can quote from her scans, and EEG's like physicians, but can't seem to comprehend the evidence the videos and pictures provide. They have to keep repeating lies to prove their argument, so that must mean the truth supports Terri.

17 MEDICAL AFFIDAVITS AFFIRM
TERRI SCHIAVO NOT PVS

Florida's Sixth Circuit Court Judge George W. Greer agreed Friday to hear new motions seeking new medical testing in the ongoing right-to-life case of Terri Schindler Schiavo, the brain injured woman whom he has ordered to death on March 18.
At a status conference concerning pending motions in the case, Greer said he would conduct hearings on the request of Mary and Robert Schindler Sr., Terri's parents, for new testing based on new medical technology regarding the brain injured.
For more than 10 years, Michael Schiavo and the Schindlers have been locked in a contentious court battle---the estranged husband trying to end his wife's life by judicial homicide while her parents seek to save her life and care for her.
David Gibbs III, attorney for the Schindlers submitted 17 new affidavits to the court from medical experts from around the country who have studied videos and other medical evidence regarding the woman. Each have opined that the woman is not in a persistent vegetative state as Greer has ruled but rather exhibits cognitive behavior and is aware of and stimulated by her environment.
The affidavits support the Schindlers' motion asking Judge Greer to let medical evaluations be performed on Terri in light of recent advances in medical technologies. The affidavits urge that Terri be evaluated based on the fact that new evaluation and therapeutic technologies can significantly impact brain damaged and disabled persons. Many of them have stated that there is strong likelihood that Terri is in a minimally conscious state.

More affidavits are expected to be filed next week in support of the Schindler's motion.

________________________________________
Affidavit of Dr. Ralph Ankenman, MD
Affidavit of Dr. Pamela Hyikn, SLP

Affidavit of Dr. Beatrice Engstrand, MD
Affidavit of Dr. Jill Joyce, Phd

Affidavit of Dr. Alyse Eytan, MD
Affidavit of Dr. Philip Kennedy, MD, Phd

Affidavit of Dr. Harry Sawyer Goldsmith, MD
Affidavit of Dr. Kyle Lakas, MS, CCC, SLP

Affidavit of Dr. Jacob Green, MD
Affidavit of Dr. Richard Neubauer, MD, PA

Affidavit of Dr. Carolyn Heron, MD
Affidavit of Dr. Ricardo Senno, MD, MS, FAAPMR

Affidavit of Dr. David Hopper, PhD
Affidavit of Dr. Stanley Terman, MD, Phd

Affidavit of Dr. Lawrence Huntoon, MD
Affidavit of Dr. J. Michael Uszler, MD

Affidavit of Dr. Richard Weidman, MD

Greer has also agreed to conduct a hearing on the reversible error motion filed by the Schindlers that Greer's 2000 death order must be vacated and a new trial ordered because "critical evidence was discounted by the court".
The Schindlers contend that Greer lacked the clear and convincing evidence needed when he issued the Feb. 11, 2000, death order and made a "clear mistake: when he discounted testimony by one of Terri Schiavo's best friends, Diane Christine Meyer. http://www.theempirejournal.com/93040563_schindler_attorney_says.htm
In other developments in the case Friday, the attorney for Michael Schiavo has filed a motion trying to avoid giving a deposition in the case in response to the Schindlers' pending motion to remove Schiavo as Terri's guardian.
George Felos, Schiavo's attorney, also filed a motion to dismiss Schindler's petition to remove Schiavo as guardian. Felos said Schindlers' petition contained "scandalous and prejudicial remarks concerning Michael Schiavo". He said that the motion was legally insufficient as the reasons cited for removal were inadequate. He said that Greer's death order of Feb. 25 ordering Schiavo to remove Terri's feeding tube at 1 p.m. on Friday, March 18 renders the guardianship petition moot.
Felos contends that even if Schiavo were removed as guardian, any new guardian appointed would be required to comply with the death order of Greer

________________________________________
Affidavit of Dr. Ralph Ankenman, MD
Affidavit of Dr. Pamela Hyikn, SLP

Affidavit of Dr. Beatrice Engstrand, MD
Affidavit of Dr. Jill Joyce, Phd

Affidavit of Dr. Alyse Eytan, MD
Affidavit of Dr. Philip Kennedy, MD, Phd

Affidavit of Dr. Harry Sawyer Goldsmith, MD
Affidavit of Dr. Kyle Lakas, MS, CCC, SLP

Affidavit of Dr. Jacob Green, MD
Affidavit of Dr. Richard Neubauer, MD, PA

Affidavit of Dr. Carolyn Heron, MD
Affidavit of Dr. Ricardo Senno, MD, MS, FAAPMR

Affidavit of Dr. David Hopper, PhD
Affidavit of Dr. Stanley Terman, MD, Phd

Affidavit of Dr. Lawrence Huntoon, MD
Affidavit of Dr. J. Michael Uszler, MD

Affidavit of Dr. Richard Weidman, MD

The affidavits can be read at www.terrisfight.org

Is Terri Schiavo Dead?

Eat, drink, and vegetate

Ronald Bailey

Terri Schiavo has been in a persistent vegetative state since 1990. Her husband wants to withdraw the nutrition and hydration her body has been receiving and allow her body to die. Her mother, father, and sister—and now Florida Governor Jeb Bush—want to continue supplying her body with food and water until... what? She wakes up? Dies of pneumonia?

What is a persistent vegetative state? According to the National Institute for Neurological Disorders and Stroke people in PVS "have lost their thinking abilities and awareness of their surroundings, but retain non-cognitive function and normal sleep patterns. Even though those in a persistent vegetative state lose their higher brain functions, other key functions such as breathing and circulation remain relatively intact. Spontaneous movements may occur, and the eyes may open in response to external stimuli. They may even occasionally grimace, cry, or laugh. Although individuals in a persistent vegetative state may appear somewhat normal, they do not speak and they are unable to respond to commands." People suffering from PVS can generally be distinguished from afflicted but cognitively intact patients who suffer from "locked-in syndrome" by the fact that "locked in" patients can track visual stimuli and use eye blinks for communication.

According to most neurological experts, Terri Schiavo is definitely PVS—her eyes do not really track visual stimuli and she cannot communicate using eye blinks. However, Terri Schiavo's parents have posted several short ambiguous video clips online which are meant to show that Ms. Schiavo responds to stimuli. But what they show seems to fit an AMA's report of how PVS patients can respond to environmental cues without being aware. Specifically, the report notes, "Despite an 'alert demeanor', observation and examination repeatedly fail to demonstrate coherent speech, comprehension of the words of examiners or attendants, or any capacity to initiate or make consistently purposeful movements. Movements are largely confined to reflex withdrawals or posturing in response to noxious or other external stimuli. Since neither visual nor auditory signals require cortical integrity to stimulate brief orienting reflexes, some vegetative patients may turn the head or dart the eyes toward a noise or moving objects. However, PVS patients neither fixate upon nor consistently follow moving objects with the eyes, nor do they show other than startle responses to loud stimuli. They blink when air movements stimulate the cornea but not in the presence of visual threats per se."

Ms. Schiavo has been in this state for 13 years. What are her chances of recovering at least some awareness? Minnesota neurologist Ronald Cranford told the Washington Post, "There has never been a documented case of someone recovering after having been in a persistent vegetative state for more than 3 months. However, the journal Brain Injury reported the case, of a 26-year-old woman who, after being diagnosed as suffering from a persistent vegetative state for six months, recovered consciousness and, though severely disabled, is largely cognitively intact. However, it is generally agreed that if a patient doesn't become responsive before six months, his or her prognosis is extremely poor. A report on PVS by the Australian National Health and Medical Research Council finds that "patients in a state of post-coma unresponsiveness may emerge from it to become responsive," that "the probability of emergence becomes progressively less over time," and that "there is general agreement that emergence is less likely in older people, and in the victims of hypoxic brain damage." Terri Schiavo is the way she is because oxygen was cut off to her brain for 14 minutes; in other words, she suffered severe hypoxic brain damage.

So is Terri Schiavo still alive? The odds are way against it. It's time that her long-suffering parents and the grandstanding politicians let her go in peace.

Ronald Bailey is Reason's science correspondent.

What the courts say about Schiavo's brain

In a June 6 opinion that rouched on the medical evidence in the Schiavo case, the 2nd District Court of Appeal wrote" "Although the physicians were not in complete agreement concerning the extent of the daughter's brain damage, they all agreed that the brain scans showed extensive permanent damage to her brain. They only debate between the doctors was whether she had a small amount of isolated living tissue in her cerebral cortex or whether she had no living tissue in her cerebral cortex."

I'll believe the evidence of my eyes. If I'm wrong, so be it.

Did you see the whole tapes? The hours? I bet not. What you saw were a few minutes of carefully edited snips.

A voice of reason, at long last.

Add to what you posted the fact that most of these videos were made years ago. Terri's brain has innexpliccably deteriorated at a pace which warrants investigation.

I personnally believe her husband played a role in rotting her brain, but we need to let go of the shell that is left of her so that an investigation can begin.

The CT scan of her brain isn't consistant with just 18 minutes without oxygen.