Posted on 03/06/2005 1:01:04 PM PST by Hugenot
"I read the New Testament too.
Something wrong with the Old Testament?"
It's not the reading of it, nor the going to church or temple, NOR the doing of the commands in it which gives us forgiveness from God. It is ONLY because His Son paid the price, giving His life as our Substitute, taking our punishment Himself, offering us new life through trust, belief in Him. This is all God asks.
But the church TK grows up in, insists to this day of giving its own set of rules to its parishoners, which only burden them, and don't better them nor free them from sin in God's sight. And that tree bears the fruit of parishoners who haven't a clue.
All three major branches of the Christian church, Protestant, Catholic, and Eastern Orthodox reject Mormonism as being a Christian religion. All agree it is non-Christian because all Mormon basic beliefs are contrary to historical Christianity. There are so many re-definitions that Christianity is gone, and it's something else.
Some in Mormonism don't care. But if you do, write me, I'll be glad to teach you the distinctions so that you can decide for yourself. I'll guarantee you what I'll show you, your leaders haven't told you these things. Then you can research and see the facts, and decide for yourself.
jesusrose@earthlink.net.
One easy example: Christianity teaches there is only ONE God. LDS teaches God is the God of THIS universe, but that there are many other Gods out there, and that their men get to become Gods after their next life, IF they do such and such here. That's not Christianity!
Study the OT in light of the NT. Jesus said the OT Scriptures spoke of Him. Isaiah spoke of Him. He also said His Word was not to be added to or subracted from. Joseph Smith and Brigham Young's claimed revelations from God, can't be from God, because they add to the Word. And because of alot of other reasons. Blessings to you.
Not to mention the Old Testament prophets. For people so concerned about the poor, liberals are strangely unwilling to dip into their own pockets.
And if Kennedy thinks the "police power of state" is the appropriate way to help the poor, doesn't he think he should contribute? Recall that he got his mother, post-mortem, classed as a Florida resident to save on death taxes, though she hadn't even been out of MA for 10 or more years.
You'd think if liberals are only going to concentrate on one strand of biblical teaching, they'd at least get that right.
Likewise the New Testament is the fullfillment of the Old Testament (completed in Revelation, which is really an Old Testament book, completing the Old Testament promise of a ruling Jewish Messiah)
Amen.
I saw the interview yesterday..What does NOT come across in the text is the blatant phonines of Kennedy..
Kennedy contributes to the poor...using your tax dollars.
If I write it another 1000 times, maybe I'll actually believe Teddy Kennedy can be redeemed.
So why don't they include the Apocrypha with the Bible... that's something I'd be interested in reading, and I can't find it (in book form) anywhere.
An interesting aspect of the NT is how it refers to the OT... it does make knowing the OT very worth while.
You can find it in the NAS (Roman Catholic) Bible, dispersed throughout the OT, since the Catholics do regard it as being inspired since the Council of Trent.
Early Reformation Bibles contained it, but only as uninspired writings, for example the original King James had it in the middle of it, not intermingled with the Inspired text of the Old and New Testaments
ya, i knew it wasn't inspired... but it's another part and aspect of history and something i'd be interested in reading.
Thanks for the info.
ya, i knew it wasn't inspired... but it's another part and aspect of history and something i'd be interested in reading.
Thanks for the info.
That was the view of those who printed the first Reformation bibles, that it has historical merit.
Thomas Nelson puts out a replica of the original King James with the Apocrypha in the center (as it was when first printed)
Respectfully, and my answers backed by all solid encyclopedias,
1. "We believe that Jesus Christ..."
Answer: Which Jesus? Mormon Jesus is an entirely different definition than Scripture. He is the spirit-brother of Lucifer, a result of sex between "Adam who is a God" and Eve.
Nope. Christianity's Jesus has a different and contrary definition. He is God the Son, not created. Lucifer is an angel who fell, and not His brother. Adam was a creation of God, not A god. Jesus is eternally the only God, no beginning.
2."-We believe in the Godhead... and that it consists of 3 separate entities- Heavenly Father, Jesus, Holy Ghost"
Answer: Nope. That's different than and contrary to Christianity. Christianity does not believe in "3 separate entities." Scripture teaches there is only one God. He is eternal, uncreated, everlasting, omniscient, omnipotent, and within this one God are the Father, the Son, and the Spirit. Each Person within the One God is fully God. They are co-equal, co-eternal. The father is God, the Son is God, and the Spirit is God, yet there is only ONE God. That's not a contradiction. There are three "whos" within the ONE "What" ('God' is what He is, not His name.) There are not three "whos" and one "who." That would be a contradiction. Nor are each separate gods. But they are NOT "3 separate entities." Instead, there is ONLY ONE God. Any religion which teaches otherwise, is not Christianity.
By adding to the Old Testament and the New Testament, Joseph Smith and Brigham Young disobeyed those Scriptures, where God commanded not to add to nor take from these words. He also said that anyone, even if an angel preaches a different definition of Jesus, he is anathema. It is not Christianity.
3. "We do not believe that we will become gods."
Answer: Either you are female, in which case you won't according to LDS, or if you are male, they haven't taught you that far yet. The official LDS belief is that males will become Gods, have their own planet to populate with their multiple wives. This is hidden, but official doctrine, common knowledge with a little research. Read scholarly works outside of the books and publishers and authors they recommend.
4. "All people on this earth will be resurrected, regardless of if they do or if they don't do certain things."
Answer: That all people are resurrected "regardless of whether they do or don't do certain things" is not the official LDS teaching. All are resurrected, sure. But there are very specific things you must do in LDS which are contrary to Christianity.
Instead, I suggest they milkcoat what the teachings are at the beginning to get enough people in who think it's a kind of Christianity. In reality, LDS DO believe there are VERY specific things you MUST do to have a high place in the kingdom of God, things not in Scripture. This is contrary to Christianity which says the Son of God met the obedience required by the Laws, and that He offers everyone HIS obedience, HIS righteousness, the forgiveness through the life, death and resurrection of Christ, showing His victory over death, and proving His Deity.
Being God and human, fully God and fully man at His incarnation, Jesus was perfect, and fully atoned for our sins. Judgment was fully paid, and justice was done. The Lord can look upon us now through the righteousness of Christ which is imputed to us, and through our being "not guilty" because of His death in our place. No man other than Him is perfect, and we all are separated from God and stand in judgment. Until we believe.
But it must be in the right Jesus. And the LDS definitions of God, the Trinity, salvation, Jesus, the Father, the Holy Spirit, are all contrary to Christianity. It's a deception of Smith and Young which you can easily examine with some research.
Christianity is a religion of grace, not works, monergism, not synergism. It is offered to everyone, not some, by grace alone, not grace plus cooperation or grace plus doing thus and so. God gets all the glory, because this is something He has done in love and grace FOR us1
The God of Christianity is not "the God of this universe" which is the LDS official teaching, but rather He is the ONLY God, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and has revealed Himself to us in the Bible, saying those words are inspired, and to be studied.
He offers forgiveness, and asks for belief. Salvation, and even our faith is a gift from God (Eph.2:8,9). Trust that Jesus Christ's death was for your sins, repent, turn to Him.
But it has to be the correct Jesus. And the LDS Jesus is not the definition of ANY Christian denomination. It's sad.
I hope this helps, and thanks to the administrator of FR for letting me explain every once in awhile.
" IOW, because his father was a devout catholic..."
Agreed. And I'll raise you one. I'm not a Catholic, I'm Protestant. But I can see that neither Ted nor old Joe Kennedy were sincere Catholics, they are/were ruthless crooks who wore their Catholicism like traitors hide behind the American Flag....
and he doesn't believe it either.
Positively right.......they use(d) religion as a convenient crutch to advance their personal and political ambitions. Kerry tried to do the same as a prez candidate, but luckily he failed miserably b/c he had no credibilty on the religion issue, and was labeled a CINO.
Hello, and here we go.
1. Jesus Christ, son of Mary, who had an immaculate conception and preached in the meridian of time. I believe that this is the same Jesus Christ as your Jesus Christ, who was conceived by Mary through an immaculate conception and taught charity and hope and the gospel of peace in the meridian of time. Adam is not a god. I agree. 'Jesus is eternally God, no beginning'- Yup. Our spirits are all eternal. We don't just vanish when we die...
2. Read Acts 7:55. Simon 'saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God. And said, Behoold, I see the heavens opened and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God. Read Matt 3:16-17- And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of hte water, an, lo, the heavens were opened unto him and he was the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him; And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. Certainly Jesus didn't call himself his beloved Son from heaven.
3. You must like anti-Mormon propaganda. Polygamy was banned by the President of the church, Wilford Woodruff, in 1890. i'll quote some of it. "There is nothing in my teachings to the Church or in those of my associates, during the time specified, which can be reasonably construed to inculcate or encourage polygamy; and when any Elder of the Church has used language which appeared to convey any such teaching, he has been promptly reproved. An I now publicly declare that my advice to the Latter-day Saints is to refrain from contracting any marriage forbidden by the law of the land." Polygamy is banned by the church, and those who believe in and practice polygamy are excommunicated. As immortal spirits, (because as we learned, all spirits are immortal), we will live forever. That does not mean that we will be gods.
4. Those VERY specific things are: be baptized, get married in the a temple, endure to the end, live the gospel. Very specific, eh. Justice and mercy, justice and mercy. so what you're suggesting is that all we have to do is live our lives, follow the 'eat drink and be merry, for tomorrow we die' mindset, and we'll be just as glorified as the Pope? (for a Catholic example). I don't think so. Faith without works is dead. It's in the Bible. KJV.
Mormonism does ask a lot. It requires dedication, sacrifice, etc. Things don't have any value if you don't have to sacrifice for them, at least not in the same sense. You didn't value your parent's stuff like it was your own when you were a kid, did you? Think about your first car... or your first house. That has value to you, because you sacrificed for it. And yes, God's grace is sufficient to save all men, if they will yield to the enticings of the Holy Spirit.
Have a nice day. Try broadening your palate of religious literature.... Mormonism IS a Christian religion, a branch of the Protestant sect. I appreciate the chance to further explore religion. Thanks.
(please excuse any spelling errors... i hope they do not interfere with meaning.)
Let's take ONE claim: "Mormonism is a Christian religion."
Where would we normally go to look for information? Encyclopedias, dictionaries. So, first look at several reputable encyclopedias.
You want to verify the viewpoints of the authors of those particular articles. What if because of the spread of disciples of a cult, as they work for the encyclopedias and textbooks, they start changing the definitions so that their group fits the defintion of a Christian denomination? It happens in politics, we see how one small group can keep pushing the boundaries. This is not paranoia--it is scholarship. Examine what are the official teachings of the three major Christian Denominations, Prot, Cath, and E. Orth, and then compare to Mormon teaching.
The result you will find is that it is not considered a Christian denomination.
Now ask what the historic definition of Jesus Christ is. Write it out. Write a very clear definition of the Trinity and of the Deity and humanity of Christ and His incarnation. Now compare those to what Mormons teach differ? this is NOT the same Jesus "preached in the meridian of time." Many same terms, but ALL redefinitions.
You have to be able to first realize that yes, LDS teaches something not only different to those definitions, but contrary to them.
--Adam is not a god. I agree.
But LDS teaches he is. You should get out.
-- You say: 'Jesus is eternally God, no beginning'- Yup. Our spirits are all eternal. We don't just vanish when we die... " YOU mean we ALL have eternal spirits, which Scripture does not teach. It teaches that WE are created. It teaches that only Jesus is the Son of God eternal, having no beginning. When He became incarnate, He added to that Divine nature a human nature. That one person was fully God and fully man. That is not the LDS teaching.
Your #2 gives good Scriptures showing each separate Person of the ONE God, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. The Father is not the Son,nor the Spirit. The Son is not the Spirit nor the Father. The Spirit is not the Father nor the Son. Scripture gives us all three, and yet says there is only one God. Scripture shows all three as co-eternal, co-powerful, not as 1/3 of God each, but each as fully God. Only ONE God, with none before Him or after Him is what Christianity teaches, and is not what LDS teaches.
--Polygamy in the next life is a part of LDS teaching on eschatology. There is a way as a human to earn that level, according to LDS. Perhaps you're not there yet to hear of this from them, but you can read the scholarly literature showing the actual Mormon writings which are the official teaching of the church. To claim views showing Mormon teachings are contrary implies that there is mal-intent. If a reporter reports an actual event, is he wrong just because you disagree? No, you must look at the facts.
#4 You say "Those VERY specific things" LDSD says we must do for salvation are: "be baptized, get married in the a temple, endure to the end, live the gospel. Very specific, eh. Justice and mercy."
The Christian teaching is contrary to that, and this is the most important. WE do not "live the Gospel." CHRIST lived the only sinless life. We are sinners and are "not righteous, no not one." We CANnot save ourselves by doing ANYthing. JESUS did the dying on the cross, the payment for our redemption in FULL. It was Finished there. HE offers us forgiveness because of His love and grace.
The Father's justice was met when that spotless Lamb of God, His only Son, (not created, but eternally the Son), willingly gave His life taking OUR punishment HIMSELF. HE has the worth, the value, and HIS death paid for ALL the world's sin. He loved us that much, to save us when we could not save ourselves. Justice was met. The wrath of the Father was turned away in Christ.
But because that fully Divine/fully human Jesus was God, He raised Himself from the dead, conquering all our sins, offering us eternal life if we will believe in HIS work, not ours, HIS grace.
You say " so what you're suggesting is that all we have to do is live our lives, follow the 'eat drink and be merry, for tomorrow we die' mindset." Scripture NOwhere says that, and you cannot misrepresent or misinterpret it. We are to want to be holy, because when we believe, the Holy Spirit comes to live inside us. HE changes our heart, and we want to serve Him. But we still have our sin nature, and will have to fight it until we die. But our salvation is NOT based on whether or not we can be good enough, do enough, do ANYthing other than believe on CHRIST'S work. HE was our substitute.
When any religion places anything contrary to this good news of God's grace offered us in Jesus, it goes against Scripture. Jesus said "No man can come to the Father but by Me." It was HIS works which atoned for us, not our works. It was HIS sacrifice, NOT ours. Adding to His work in anyway is NOT Christianity. "For by grace you have been saved, through faith, and that is a gift that no man may boast" (Eph.2:8,9.).
Jesus is glorified, not the "Pope" as you say.
So what does the passage mean, "Faith without works is dead?" When we have faith in, trust in, Jesus Christ the Son of God's substitution for us on the cross, we accept His forgiveness. He comes to live inside us and we have a living faith, and HE enables us to love others as ourselves. HE enables us to love the RIGHT God with our whole heart, soul, mind and strength.
Think of it...alse religions can do seemingly good things. I have a friend helping Tsunami victims every day, while a member of a Hindu cult. She does good,on a social sense, and yet God says our works cannot please Him. He is just, as you say. What kind of punishment would meet justice for all the world's sins? Only the works of His sinless Son. HIS good is what Christians speak of as grace and love and mercy. The Father legally imputes our sin to Christ, and His righteousness to us. We are declared not guilty when we believe His death was sufficient. And for ME. When we trust HIM for salvation,not any actions on my part to try to co-operate.
Christianity is the only religion where God in love forgives us, through His Son's death on our behalf. He hates sin, but He loved us enough to die for us. Reconciliation with the Father is offered purely because of His graciousness. If we will believe Jesus. it has to be the right Jesus, the right God.
When Smith and Young come along in the 1830s ff. and change that historic death and resurrection, when they change the definition of God and salvation, this is not Christianity. In fact, it is anti-Christian, because it teaches salvation through doing things which are contrary to what the real Christ taught.
Anyone can make claims. Jesus proved it by rising from the dead. Adding to or taking from the OT or NT is wrong. It is the inspired word of God, and accurate in its revelation of who God is. When some religion claims to have a new revelation, like some angel Moroni giving "new truth", when it is a message contrary to the Gospel of the early Christians who wrote the NT under the inspiration of the Holy spirit, we are to forsake the false writings, repent, and turn to the real God's love and forgiveness.
I hope this helps. Read Scripture, and compare everything to that revealed truth.
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