Posted on 12/17/2004 8:33:59 AM PST by jveritas
In the last few weeks so many threads have been posted on Free Republic regarding the illegal immigration issue. Many of the posters on these threads are not there to discuss the illegal immigration issue in a constructive and logical way, but they have been savagely bashing President Bush and spewing their despise toward him, as bad if not even worse than the most rabid left wing liberals.
The illegal immigration issue is an important discussion forum that we need to debate on FR, but the style and the content of the debate as appeared in many posts have been filled with a despicable hatred toward President Bush.
Many who disagree with President Bush illegal immigration issue are “True Conservatives” and “Faithful Republicans”, but they do it in a constructive criticism rather than hateful speeches. On the other hand, the perpetrators of these hateful posts are the Buchananites and the 3rd party voters.
Illegal immigration is a vital issue that our nation needs to deal with. President Bush has suggested the “Guest Worker Program” which is in some ways a “practical” and “effective” solution to address some but not all of the problems of the 10-15 millions illegal immigrants in the US. However the President still does not address in a clear way what are the effective measures that we need to take to strengthen the control of the Southern borders, and prevent new waves of illegal immigrants coming to the country everyday through the Mexican borders. Also what must be urgently addressed is the abuse perpetuated by many illegal immigrants of states and federal welfare programs. The Guest Worker Program must be very clear that immigrants who are employed under this program are not entitled to welfare help, period.
Now the extreme fringe on FR, want to use the most radical and the dumbest ways to solve the illegal immigration issue. The wackiest of their wacky ideas, is to deport all the illegal immigrants. What a great solution! What this fringe do not take comprehend is that deporting 10 to 15 millions illegal immigrants, require that the states and the federal law enforcement agencies must hire tens of thousand of people and must spend tens if not hundred of billions of dollars to do it, and it will not work. Make no doubt about it that the media will be abusing these scenes of deportation thousand folds than anything they have used and abused in the past. The vast majority of the Americans will not accept days after days of images and videos of the millions of illegal immigrants being put in buses and deported. The courts will be tied up in ten of thousands of cases regarding deporting illegal immigrants and this will cost ten of billions of dollars as well. Eventually, these extreme radical and illogical measures will create a tremendous backlash that will destroy any honest effort to fix the illegal immigration problems.
Another delusional idea to resolve the illegal immigration issue is to heavily fine the businesses who hire illegal immigrants and by doing so these immigrants will return back home because no one is hiring them. WOW! Another genius solution! This idea is as moronic as the deporting the millions of illegal immigrants because it requires tens of thousands of new law enforcement agents and tens of billions of dollars, plus it will be played very badly in the arena of public opinion. Furthermore a very strong sector of the business community will fight it to death and they will not let it happen, period.
In conclusion there is only one logical and practical solution to resolve the illegal immigration problem. Legalize the illegal immigrants via a guest worker program, and at the same type stop new and future waves of illegal immigrants by strongly controlling and tightening the Southern borders.
Enough with the hate Bush threads disguised under the illegal immigration issue. Let us discuss this important issue in an honest, smart, logical and constructive way and let us stop the irrational hateful posts.
Don't you mean, "Let's discuss this the way I want you to discuss this"?
Only because small children aren't corrupt.
No more delusional than the IRS going after businesses or individuals that fail to pay their income taxes. For one --- any business not paying into social security and using illegals as a way to avoid paying minimum wages and taxes --- using taxpayers to provide free health care so they get rich from cheap labor --- should be very heavily fined. They need to reimburse the taxpayers.
Actually just crossing the border illegally isn't a felony. But they do commit felonies when they start getting into identity theft and committing felony document crime. Presenting someone else's social security number to work or obtain welfare handouts is felony document fraud. Many illegals use stolen or borrowed Medicaid cards --- another felony crime. If they drive with no liability insurace that should also be a serious crime --- like it is for Americans.
I think so too --- because for one --- no one believes that Bush really intends to have the illegals he turns into "guests" return home in 3 years --- for one Vicente Fox and his government would never agree to that. The other thing -- Vicente Fox calls all the shots on this --- and Bush has never demanded that the Mexican government reimburse the American people for the free health care and education --- and we know the employers of illegals won't want them if they had to actually pay for them. So our national debt will have to be raised several trillion more to provide for the freebies the "guests" will require.
Send the IRS or OSHA after them --- an honest company hiring Americans making one honest mistake on some silly OSHA law can be fined hundreds of thousands --- or an improperly filled out tax statement can do an honest business in. Why the free pass on those who get around minimum wage, labor laws, EEO laws, tax laws, workman's comp laws, social security tax laws and much more?
Odd that you would complain about a lack of meaningful discussion and then post that garbage.
And because they often have more sense than the politicians.
ah, i knew i was off when i said felony. thanks for clearing that up for me.
What a terrific example of civil discourse. (sarcasm)
I am totally confused as to why you think the guest worker program is such a good idea. You are assuming that those entering the US illegally are going to become law abiding despite the obvious fact that those that would benefit from the program are proven law breakers. Illegal aliens violate the law. They will violate the provisions of the " guest worker" program. Illegal aliens can come across legally. They don't want to go through the time and expense of doing it legally. So, they take the easy way and violate US immigration law.
Confiscate ALL Property of Business owners that hire illegals.
Fire all State and Federal Employees that willfully do not turn in Illegals to the INS.
All Illegals will be put in custody when arrested for ANY crime, a hearing will be given within 72 hours of arrest for misdemeanors for deportation.
Amen to your solutions, bro...
Because Dubya Bush is still treating the border like a Hollywood red carpet event, we're supposed to hold fire?
We are a sovereign nation governed by laws that need enforcing.
Why is it "bashing" to demand the President to enforce the law?
I don't worship at anyone's alter, and I voted for George Bush.
The only meaningful discussion which has any meaning is right and wrong.
Breaking our laws is wrong. Until that can be accepted, all other discussion is meaningless.
As one who lives on the border, I have no interest in hearing any political parasite from any party yapping about a guest worker program until and unless they have the balls to outline and define what they will do to seal the border and enforce our immigration laws. I want to see action first, not just another hat full of hot air and empty promises.
As it stands, every time one of our masters starts bloviating about guest workers, legalization, normalization, and every other synonym for the unspoken word amnesty, a few more towns in Mexico pack up and head north in hopes of hitching a ride on the gringo gravy train.
We saw it happen here in Cochise County in the last year after Dubya’s famous January speech. At one point, illegal alien traffic was up 114% over the same time in 2003. It ended up “only” 35% higher. The Border Patrol caught 235,936 in this county last year – and the agents estimate they snagged maybe one in five. What does that say about the number that made it through? About 940,000 – and that 235,936 was part of it, because most all of them made it safely on one of their next attempts.
Try to imagine the amount of damage that number of fugitives leave in their wake. I use the term fugitives because that’s what they explicitly are until they can get past the primary enforcement area to that interior hinterland where our government no longer gives a collective damn. As for the fugitives, they only care about remaining uncaught; the niceties of law and civilized behavior got jettisoned back at the border fence.
Meanwhile, the residents of this county soak up the damages. Vandalism and damage to property. Thefts. Burglaries. Vehicle thefts. Car-jackings. Assaults. High speed chases. Deaths.
Most of these little changes to our local quality of life happened in the last five years. In the last two years we have seen a dramatic change in the personality of the fence jumpers. Many show up with an arrogant attitude and a sense of entitlement. Within 10 miles of the border it has become common to have large groups show up on your doorstep demanding (not asking) food, water, use of the telephone, and rides. Incidents of violence towards the Border Patrol have also increased drastically.
Remember the great Arizona Border Control Initiative earlier this year? It fizzled out into nothing more than a media photo op. Frankly, it was designed to do just that from an enforcement standpoint. Most of the promised manpower and equipment was sent off to the western desert for humanitarian reasons. Cochise County saw a token hand full of additional agents – at a time when the Border Patrol was openly admitting that 25% of all illegal traffic was coming through this one narrow corridor.
People in this county are fed up. We see our Border Patrol agents busting their humps day and night trying to control the situation with totally inadequate resources. We’re tired of constantly paying the price for the failures in DC. As far as we’re concerned, our political masters have decided that we are just acceptable collateral damage in whatever political games they're playing.
Some want every Mexican in the U.S. rounded up and put into camps while others want the U.S. to expend its nuclear arsenal on every Spanish speaking country on Earth. These are people who worship at the alter of Pat Buchanan, a man who has basically denied the Holocaust and blames all the worlds problems on the "JOOOOOOOOWS".
Interesting, how you're injecting the Jews into this. I find your post very bizarre, possibly one with a covert, twisted agenda.
What does this thread have to do with the Jews? Are you suggesting anyone that is speaking out against this titanic, out of control illegal invasion of our country hates Jews? Are they all Nazis? Is this epic invasion of our country not real? Did Buchanan make all this up? Is there a conspiracy here against Jewish folks?
And as much as I am against the Mexicanization of the USA --- if I wanted to live in Mexico, I knew where it was and could have moved over there --- I don't think every illegal should be considered a felon. If they just come over and commit no other crime --that's one thing. If they rake some leaves for a few bucks in cash --- they haven't paid income tax but would be in that low bracket where they wouldn't have had to anyhow -- so they aren't all that serious as criminals. If they steal a car or obtain a stolen social security number or purchased green card -- then they're getting into the felony area and are far worse types than the others.
And he is from Texas.
I've never seen anyone on FR suggest either of those. For one if they're put into camps, we still have to provide their free health care and living expenses --- just send them back home.
Asset forfeiture. There will be no profit for them to remain here.
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