Posted on 12/17/2004 8:33:59 AM PST by jveritas
In the last few weeks so many threads have been posted on Free Republic regarding the illegal immigration issue. Many of the posters on these threads are not there to discuss the illegal immigration issue in a constructive and logical way, but they have been savagely bashing President Bush and spewing their despise toward him, as bad if not even worse than the most rabid left wing liberals.
The illegal immigration issue is an important discussion forum that we need to debate on FR, but the style and the content of the debate as appeared in many posts have been filled with a despicable hatred toward President Bush.
Many who disagree with President Bush illegal immigration issue are “True Conservatives” and “Faithful Republicans”, but they do it in a constructive criticism rather than hateful speeches. On the other hand, the perpetrators of these hateful posts are the Buchananites and the 3rd party voters.
Illegal immigration is a vital issue that our nation needs to deal with. President Bush has suggested the “Guest Worker Program” which is in some ways a “practical” and “effective” solution to address some but not all of the problems of the 10-15 millions illegal immigrants in the US. However the President still does not address in a clear way what are the effective measures that we need to take to strengthen the control of the Southern borders, and prevent new waves of illegal immigrants coming to the country everyday through the Mexican borders. Also what must be urgently addressed is the abuse perpetuated by many illegal immigrants of states and federal welfare programs. The Guest Worker Program must be very clear that immigrants who are employed under this program are not entitled to welfare help, period.
Now the extreme fringe on FR, want to use the most radical and the dumbest ways to solve the illegal immigration issue. The wackiest of their wacky ideas, is to deport all the illegal immigrants. What a great solution! What this fringe do not take comprehend is that deporting 10 to 15 millions illegal immigrants, require that the states and the federal law enforcement agencies must hire tens of thousand of people and must spend tens if not hundred of billions of dollars to do it, and it will not work. Make no doubt about it that the media will be abusing these scenes of deportation thousand folds than anything they have used and abused in the past. The vast majority of the Americans will not accept days after days of images and videos of the millions of illegal immigrants being put in buses and deported. The courts will be tied up in ten of thousands of cases regarding deporting illegal immigrants and this will cost ten of billions of dollars as well. Eventually, these extreme radical and illogical measures will create a tremendous backlash that will destroy any honest effort to fix the illegal immigration problems.
Another delusional idea to resolve the illegal immigration issue is to heavily fine the businesses who hire illegal immigrants and by doing so these immigrants will return back home because no one is hiring them. WOW! Another genius solution! This idea is as moronic as the deporting the millions of illegal immigrants because it requires tens of thousands of new law enforcement agents and tens of billions of dollars, plus it will be played very badly in the arena of public opinion. Furthermore a very strong sector of the business community will fight it to death and they will not let it happen, period.
In conclusion there is only one logical and practical solution to resolve the illegal immigration problem. Legalize the illegal immigrants via a guest worker program, and at the same type stop new and future waves of illegal immigrants by strongly controlling and tightening the Southern borders.
Enough with the hate Bush threads disguised under the illegal immigration issue. Let us discuss this important issue in an honest, smart, logical and constructive way and let us stop the irrational hateful posts.
Yep, I agree. But I think Bush is hoping that by legalizing the 'guests', he'll get more employers to pay them above the table. I also think that Bush figures since we're already paying for the illegals to receive undeserved benefits, anything they pay into the system will at least, to some extent, offset those costs.
I disagree with Bush, too. I live in Cochise County, the main thoroughfare for illegal traffic into our country. I get to see the effect the illegals have on our economy every day.
The politicians in Washington are so far away, they don't see or care how it affects us down here, as long as they get the votes they need from the crying heart liberals.
I plan to vote for Tancredo in '08.
Confiscate ALL Property of Business owners that hire illegals.
Fire all State and Federal Employees that willfully do not turn in Illegals to the INS.
All Illegals will be put in custody when arrested for ANY crime, a hearing will be given within 72 hours of arrest for misdemeanors for deportation.
No Illegal will be released for ANY felony charge. Once either convicted or found Innocent Illegal will be immediately deported.
No Public services will be granted to any LEGAL immigrant without Proper Federal Immigration papers. Anyone in America Illegally will recieve NO public funding.
Anyone caught providing public funding to Illegals will be immediately terminated. Any Individual providing assistance to any ILLEGAL for any reason other that life and death medical issues will be guilty of a 5 year felony.
Criminals that sneak in deserve no quarter.
A lot of what you are suggesting is IMPOSSIBLE to be done. That what I exactly explained in my thread.
...irrational posts that advocate any solution other than Bush's. Sure.
The same way you enforce any law. Either change the law or enforce it. Can you name a law, besides illegal immigration and employer tax liability that you can willy-nilly decide to not abide by? I wouldn't suggest trying it, or you'll find out. "AH...we can't enforce our laws!!".......what a pathetic excuse.
The "its impossible to change it because we haven't changed it" argument is getting tiresome.
How many out of the 15 millions illegal immigrant are totally depending on welfare?
How are you going to enforce the current employement/tax laws. HOW?
20 posted on 12/17/2004 11:18:26 AM PST by jveritas
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I doubt there are many illegals who depend "solely" on welfare. Most are working under the table and collecting. There are plenty of statistics that show the millions receiving "social services". Look it up, it's been posted many times on FR. In Idaho and many states social workers are not allowed to ask their status.
A lot of what you are suggesting is IMPOSSIBLE to be done. That what I exactly explained in my thread.
24 posted on 12/17/2004 11:27:05 AM PST by jveritas
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It's more than tiresome, it's dangerous.
Probably more important than anything is our government's coziness with the corrupt Mexican governement. It seems what ever Mexico wants, it gets. Mexico needs to take care of it's own people, not us. And yes, they can afford it.
_________
Aired 12/16/04 On CNN ---snip----
DOBBS: Tonight, an estimated 15 million illegal aliens live in this country, at least half of them from Mexico. Many are here because they chose to flee crushing poverty in Mexico.
But, in point of fact, Mexico is one of the richest countries in Latin America, amongst -- the millionaires, billionaires and its wealth concentrated in the hands of very few.
Casey Wian reports from Los Angeles.
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: They sneak across the border seeking jobs they can't find in Mexico. The question isn't why they come, it's why can't Mexico's economy support its own people.
Nearly half of Mexico's population lives in poverty. Ten percent are indigent, existing on a dollar a day. Yet the nation has vast wealth. Mexico has more "Forbes" billionaires, 11, than all but eight other nations. It has more billionaires than Saudi Arabia, Switzerland or Taiwan. It also has more than 85,000 millionaires.
GEORGE W. GRAYSON, COLLEGE OF WILLIAM & MARY: There is a small economic elite who live like maharajas, and there's a political elite that protects them. Our border provides an escape valve which really lets the Mexican political and economic elite off the hook in terms of providing opportunities for their own people.
WIAN (on camera): About 10 percent of Mexico's 105 million people live here in the United States. They're called national heroes by President Vicente Fox because this year they'll send home about $16 billion, more than any Mexican industry except oil.
(voice-over): The country sits on oil reserves worth about $400 billion, but Mexico's state-owned oil company, Pemex, doesn't have the investment funds to tap those reserves, and Mexico's Congress refuses to allow foreign investment in Pemex.
Mexico's outdated tax system is plagued by widespread tax evasion. It collects taxes at less than half the rate of the United States. As a result, Mexico's public-school and health-care systems suffer. CHRIS WOODRUFF, CENTER FOR U.S.-MEXICO STUDIES: We now realize -- and particularly in a world where capitalists are mobile -- that redistribution isn't going to work, and what people focus on now instead is allowing the poor to build assets. Mexico has undertaken some programs which will allow the poor to do that. But that's not a process that changes overnight.
WIAN: Meanwhile, the gap between rich and poor is growing. So Mexico continues to export one of its most valuable assets, people.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0412/16/ldt.01.html
Can you seize fine the property of ten of thousands of businesses that hire illegal immigrants? The answer is NO.
Get real.
How do you define "Buchananites?" And which "Buchananites" have you determined to be delusional?
Pat Buchanan, and other Conservatives, have given complex and detailed reasons for wanting to sharply curb immigration. You are delusional if you think that the Left has ever answered those reasons. No! The answer has always been to try to besmirch motives; to accuse the man or woman who believes in the continuity of the etnic culture that is uniquely American, of being a bigoted "nativist"; a "racist," a "xenophobe" driven by hatred of the unknown, and other such wacko slurs.
You also, frankly, attach more importance to the personal opinions that some may have about President Bush, than such opinions merit. Stick to the issues. They are vastly more important than any individual or group of individuals; more important than any Administration or political party; more important than any candidate for any office, past, present or future.
For a rational approach to Immigration, see Immigration & The American Future.
As for the idea of wholesale deportation of illegal aliens? You suggest that that is too costly. Do you also suggest that the War on Drugs is too costly; how about enforcing traffic laws; or how about running any Governmental program, intended to serve the public weal--that is the public weal of Americans, as opposed to some sort of non-existent world community? If we are to spend any money on Government, at all; the last place to cut ought to be at the expense of preserving the character of our people.
William Flax
You're doing it again, blurring the conversation, trying to put words in our mouths. I made no such statements. But we could at least make an attempt to curb this problem. I posted to you about the economic wealth of many Mexicans and that they can afford to take care of their own. Do you care to discuss that? You are here to spread disinformation and it's a crying shame. Are you French?
ping
For cripes sakes!
How many thousands of times must the solutions be screamed from the rooftops!
The article that you posted is worthless regarding the solution for the illegal immigrants currently in the US.
You wrote: But we could at least make an attempt to curb this problem.
So you want to do an attempt to partially implement a non practical measure that will be an utter failure rather than providing a full comprehensive practical solution.
What is it?
Obviously you are not referring to Bush's plan. You won't discuss facts, so don't bother me again.
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