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APT: A Tiny, Flat Transaction Tax - Far Better for the Nation than the National Sales Tax
www.apttax.com ^ | 11/1/04 | Edgar L Feige, PhD

Posted on 12/05/2004 9:03:22 PM PST by APT Project Director

AUTOMATED PAYMENT TRANSACTION (APT) TAX Taxation technology for the 21st century

Dr. Edgar L. Feige, Professor Emeritus of Economics from the University of Wisconsin-Madison and the originator of the APT Tax concept, has just produced new estimates suggesting that a broad-based transaction tax as low as six tenths of one percent could replace the entire Federal and State 2005 budget revenue requirements of the United States of America.

The APT concept is elegant in its simplicity - potentially replacing the entire federal and state tax system - including income, corporate profits, excise and estate taxes - in favor of a tiny tax on all transactions. The tax would be automatically deducted from special taxpayer accounts, linked by software to all accounts at financial institutions capable of making final payments to the government seamlessly in real-time. The APT tax therefore eliminates the need for individuals and firms to file income and information tax returns. This is estimated to save citizens and the government roughly $200 billion per year in administration, enforcement, evasion and compliance costs, roughly seven times the amount currently being spent on homeland security.

The APT tax seeks to maximize the goals of both the government and the people - collecting necessary revenue with the lowest possible tax rate. The difference between the APT tax and our current income tax, as well as the proposed consumption taxes, is simplicity, progressivity, and breadth-the APT tax allows for significantly lower rates spread more equally throughout the world of economic activity. The APT is a transaction tax, and as such, taxes every single transaction that occurs in the economy including fund transfers between accounts and transactions involving the exchange of bonds, securities and foreign exchange. Because the wealthy conduct a disproportionate share of these financial transactions, the tax is highly progressive despite its flat rate. Progressivity is achieved through the skewness of tax base itself rather than through the progressive income tax rate structure of the current system. The very small tax is "sliced" off each side of every transaction as it moves electronically through banks and all other qualifying financial institutions. The tax collection is orderly and transparent, the rules are simple and universal and apolitical. The APT system eliminates the entire present tax code. No more exemptions, no more deductions, no more special interest loopholes and no more tax returns.

Feige's 2005 projections of total debits of $881 Tril., and total transactions of $832 Tril. (based on the most recent 2002 Bank for International Settlements data) update the figures he used in his original paper, published in Economic Policy in 2000. Taking the average of these two estimates ($856 Tril.), he conservatively assumes that the replacement of the current tax system with a revenue neutral APT tax will reduce total transactions by 50%. The projected potential APT tax base for 2005 would then be $428 Tril., permitting a revenue neutral flat tax of .57 percent on all transactions or .28 percent on each (buyer and seller) transactor to replace projected 2005 Federal and State tax revenues.

The tax rates required for a "revenue neutral" tax are divided into three phases which are the result of a suggested implementation plan that would gradually replace virtually all Federal and State taxes. The projected tax rates are calculated conservatively, assuming that only 50% of the potential 2005 APT tax base is available, since the volume of total transactions is expected to fall with the introduction of the APT tax. To the extent that transactions decline less than is assumed in the current calculations, an even lower tax rate would be able to raise the requisite revenues. As individuals and businesses use their new found economic freedom, transactions naturally grow over time, suggesting that future tax rates could be even lower.

Utilizing 50% of the projected APT tax base for 2005 of $856 Tril., that is, $428 Tril, the estimated tax rates required to raise the revenues projected for 2005 budgets are as follows:

Phase I (Eliminate all Federal taxes other than SS and Medicare) Required revenue neutral target=$1.242 Tril: Required tax rate = 0.29% per transaction or 0.15% per transactor.

Phase II (Eliminate all Federal taxes including Social Security and Medicare "payroll" taxes) Required revenue neutral target = $2.036 Tril. Required tax rate = 0.48 % per transaction or 0.24% per transactor.

Phase III (Eliminate all Federal taxes including Social Security and Medicare "payroll" taxes and all State personal income; corporate profits and sales taxes) Required revenue neutral target = $2.436 Tril. Required tax rate = 0.57% per transaction or 0.28% per transactor.

The estimates above are based on 2005 revenue and transaction projections. Implementing the three phases will require several years and careful government management, especially the third phase. However, Dr. Feige has built in a safeguard for the APT Tax by calculating the required tax rate based on only half of the transactions that are actually observed.

Examples: Assuming full implementation of Phase three: 1. $100 restaurant bill would have a tax to the customer estimated to be 28 cents and the restaurant would pay 28 cents. 2. $50,000 family income deposited and spent or moved to savings results in $100,000 of transactions paying a total tax of $280 distributed over all the individual transactions as they occurred through the year. These amounts would be doubled if businesses fully shifted their tax burden to the consumer, but nowhere near the $15,000 to $20,000 the family would pay under the current federal and state systems.

It is now important to begin the process of planning the economic, legal, technical and administrative requirements necessary for a smooth and transparent transition from the current tax system to an APT system. The proposed, new collection system will be tested by computer simulation to capture all potential errors and omissions (new job for the IRS). Then, it will take several years to rollout, especially Phase III involving central collection and distribution to the States. A national commitment to this revolutionary, fair, automatic and lowest cost tax system is needed NOW!

For more details, please visit www.apttax.com

William J Hermann, Jr. MD, Director APT Tax Project Contact: administrator@apttax.com , 713-932-3773


TOPICS:
KEYWORDS: apt; bigbrother; flat; governmentcontrol; nationalsalestax; privacy; tax; taxes; taxrates; taxreform; transaction
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To: CSM
The APT tax base is: Goods and Services 11%, Foreign exchange related activity 25%, securities transactions (all sorts) 26% and Money Transfers and savings transactions 25%. And that is 70 Times the current adjusted gross income of individuals and corporations. We have even HALVED the potential base in calculating our rates -- do you realize the power of that fact?

Before you get off in generalities, please tell me - How will aiming a 0.25% tax at these categories wreak any more havoc that 23% aimed at the heart of our economy - the consumer - if you believe taxes will destroy things (and they will at 23+% but NOT at 0.25%). Can you answer without any names or derogatory remarks?
181 posted on 12/07/2004 10:05:56 AM PST by APT Project Director
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To: APT Project Director
and they will at 23+% but NOT at 0.25%

Try ( (1.0025)^n - 1 ) x 100%, where "n" is the number of financial transactions involved in the production, transportation, and sale of the product. That alone shows that you are peddling a lie, trying to pass this off as a quarter of a percent rather than the real costs. Assuming only 100 financial transactions in the process (which would be laughably low for anything manufactured), I get a tax rate of 28.4%, not 0.25%.

182 posted on 12/07/2004 10:15:17 AM PST by kevkrom (If people are free to do as they wish, they are almost certain not to do as Utopian planners wish)
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To: APT Project Director

Each of these catagories pass their costs on to the consumer. Just like today. The difference is that the consumer just thinks the price is the price, with the NRST they see the added costs come right out of their hands.

Why are you supportive of hiding the cost of government from the electorate? That is the point. The same portion of our economy is stolen to fund the government, yet people either see it or they don't. You don't want them to see it, I do. When they see it they will start to kick the spenders out of office and a dramatic reduction in government will follow. Keep it hidden and the spenders can buy more votes on the back of the productive.

BTW, I don't think I have been calling you names....


183 posted on 12/07/2004 10:38:36 AM PST by CSM
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To: CSM
I apologize but the name calling is really tough on this site and I generalized. Why do you have to have your wealth painfully extracted from you in great quantities just to appreciate the cost of gov't. Your real debate is with human nature not caring enough to pay attention. I would rather approach that differently than everyone paying through the nose.

It's a matter of magnitude when you talk about passing things along. I agree in general about big taxes but when their tiny because they're spread so thin the effect will be relatively miniscule. Commerce will be buzzing and free of substantial tax do you really think 25 cents on $100 passed along is going to amount to much. How is the foreign exchange market really going to pass along the tiny tax and if they did it would have to go through nearly 100 transactions just to reach the cost of the NST at 23%. "Cascading" like everything else must be quantitated and you will see the math doesn't support the concept.
I am sorry to pour water on the beloved NST but open you minds PLEASE.
184 posted on 12/07/2004 11:07:28 AM PST by APT Project Director
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To: APT Project Director
I can appreciate your attempt to find a replacement for the current system, rather than "just fix it". However, I find it a little disturbing that you taught that your plan will "pay 70 times more tax than we have now". I find it disturbing because it will not force the government to cut its spending or the its size. If the government has 70 time more money to spend it will damn well spend it at least 3 times over in just one year. With the tax being hidden, people will be oblivious to the tax being raised so the can cover their overspending, which would just cause them to raise their budgets more and so on and so on....All plans look great on paper and work in theory, until you add reality that the greedy will take everything they can and then some and keep coming back for more. They will what ever they have to to keep their pockets stuffed.

How about taxing the "Federal Reserve"/Central Bank for the right to print our money and to control our economy instead of the citizens, after all they make lots of money and pay no taxes.

185 posted on 12/07/2004 11:11:59 AM PST by looscnnn ("Live free or die; death is not the worst of evils" Gen. John Stark 1809)
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To: APT Project Director

Where do you think the money comes from? Face it, all costs of producing products or providing a service is passed along to the consumer. ALL COSTS. No cost is just "absorbed" unless there is still an acceptable (very large) profit margin. Our major mfg. industries do not have the margins available to absorb even fractions of percentages.

On the other hand, let's assume you are right and they just absorb these costs. Wouldn't that mean that their operating costs are higher than their foriegn competition? Doesn't it mean less money available to pay the stock holders? Doesn't it mean less money available to give raises to employees? Even if they absorb the cost, the American citizen will still absorb the cost in less return on investment, lower wages, etc.

I have no interest in any system that makes stealing from productive people painless. In fact, the more people absorbing the pain the better. If we can make the cost of government largesse as painful as possible for as many people as we can, then that largesse will be slowly wittled back to constitutional duties! If you make it painless, you make it easy to raise the levels of taxation and grow government.

You seem to have taken the anti-conservative position.


186 posted on 12/07/2004 11:23:20 AM PST by CSM
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To: CSM; SAJ; ancient_geezer; kevkrom; FairOpinion; phil_will1
P> As I read through this site it is quite incredible. Too many qualitative old generalizations and not enough numbers. Folks we ARE dealing with a new idea that needs some new thinking.

The numbers do matter and must be used. For example (and I need to use alot of them) how can a final product price, the pieces of which are taxed as they are sold to the assembler, reach 130+%, that is patently ridiculous, if you do the math. Of course all those businesses have had their corporate income taxes removed as well as all their excise taxes and FICA share (so according to the magical thinking of NST their prices should all go down 20% - Right? that's the pillar of your deal). Now let's say a $100 product used parts from 5 subs at $20 a piece. Each purchase from the subs would be $20 at 0.25% or 5 cents so the tax in the final product is 25 cents then when the final product is sold another 25 cents is added. That brings the price to $100.50. Now how is that 30 +++%? I will refrain from the names you and your cohorts would append at this point.

Now let's talk about the APT tax base -- it is enormous at $856 Trillion (nearly a quadrillion). The pieces that are NOT NOW TAXED are huge and allow for everyone including business to have big reductions in their taxes. We are well aware there will be behavioral changes in the number of intracompany account transfers and, yes, day trading and short term speculation, so we play with "half our tax base tied behind our back just to make it fair". ALL THESE LOW RATES ARE ACTUALLY BASED ON ONLY HALF THE TAX BASE AVAILABLE.
APT brings alot more payers to the table and makes it better for all. Because of the number of people involved and the size of our economy these reductions in rates sound like fiction but THEY ARE NOT. You cannot discuss the proposal without understanding these core concepts.

Another myth that has been flying around this numberless discussion is that the consumer/individual pay all taxes. Granted that has been true but with rates this low and economic activity stimulated the taxes will "stay put" with their payers to a greater extent (I didn't say 100%). We need to us another example WITH NUMBERS to illustrate how passing along all taxes to the consumer will not make a whole comparative lot of difference. Take the family making $100K and spending $100K in which all the vendors pass their side of the APT tax to the consumer so the family has another $100k to be taxed, a total of $300K at 0.25% or $750. That's a tad shy of the near $30,000 owing the gov under our current system, or the $17,250 due under NST assuming the $75K spent was all taxable(incl the $5000 rebate). Let's further say this high roller traded 200k in stocks, borrowed 100k and bought a condo for $100k now he's racked up $600K in transactions and will owe a total of $1500. Still a little left over to further invest in those markets which the Free Republic Hall of Famer SAJ said would be dead. If there was not such an extreme advantage here with APT, believe me, I would be all for the NST -- which was the case before I discovered and researched the APT Tax Plan.

Lastly, let's talk about those dead security , futures and derivative markets. You accused me of static analysis. Well, don't you think with all that extra purchasing power, low interest rates (because lot's of money competing for the same bonds) and lack of gov't deficits or SS woes, and reduced taxes and compliance costs, the sales and earnings of companies would be booming ... and wouldn't that make for an especially good investment environment. I dare say the markets would be "hot" and all those speculators would be right there en masse (further reducing our taxes)not willing to let 0.25% stand in the way of that 20,50 or 100+% profit.
You know that's the case. if a few folks wanted to move offshore there would be problems with that too not the least of which are regulations and high taxes of lesser (yes, lesser) countries. We'll get that tiny tax on repatriation or heck let them go if they 're going to balk at 0.25%. I don't have absolute proof of this scenario BUT it is certainly logical.

It is true, if you tax something you tend to destroy it but it does depend heavily on the rate. APT will do EVERYTHING that NST does, including save all the same embedded taxes. But since the security markets were considered dead when a 0.25% tax was aimed at them by SAJ and fans what would you think about aiming a 23% tax at the consumer - the very heart of our economy.

Merry Christmas!
187 posted on 12/07/2004 11:26:56 AM PST by APT Project Director
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To: APT Project Director

I am sorry to pour water on the beloved NST but open you minds PLEASE.

Our minds are open, the problem is that and open mind does not mean ignoring the obvious problems inherent in the APT.

It hides the true burden of government from the view of the American electorate, thus fosters unrestrain growth of government, and is designed in a way that specifically harms financial, equity and commodity market liquidities, that will tank the Amercan economy with a cascading tax embedding ultimately into all consumption by the American citizen.

By they way, we are supporting the NRST , (National "Retail" Sales Tax)of HR25, not VATs or any flavor of tax on business or investment purchases.

188 posted on 12/07/2004 11:28:46 AM PST by ancient_geezer
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To: Remember_Salamis

LoL so you think inflation will lower interest rates?


189 posted on 12/07/2004 11:30:38 AM PST by justshutupandtakeit (Public Enemy #1, the RATmedia.)
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To: CSM

When you remove all those embedded taxes NST claims there might be a little room to absorb a tiny little tax -- after all aren't prices going down 20% or more under NST? The same embedded taxes are removed under APT!


190 posted on 12/07/2004 11:31:36 AM PST by APT Project Director
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To: APT Project Director; CSM; SAJ; kevkrom; FairOpinion; phil_will1

APT will do EVERYTHING that NST does

Sorry it fails to at least do one thing the NRST does accomplish,(infact it fails in other regards as well but this one is the biggy). It fails to inform the citizen & voter of the cost of government burdening incomes, there purchases, and their equity value.

The National Retail Sales Tax, isolates and informs the electorate of those burdens by explicitly displaying the tax revenue collected by government by it.

The APT fails to inform the electorate of the 98.6% of the revenue burdens that ultimately impact their lives. That freind is one whale of a hidden tax burden your system buries beneath the electorate's radar horizon.

No thanks, that is not the way to limit govenment growth nor encourage any level of accounability of government to the American people who bare the weight of those goverment imposed taxes.

191 posted on 12/07/2004 11:40:17 AM PST by ancient_geezer
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To: APT Project Director
The same embedded taxes are removed under APT!

And then added right back in again under the APT, under different guises. Individuals eventually bear the brunt of all taxes -- shifting them around and changing their names doesn't affect this.

The APT would kill American manufacturing and destroy the stock market. Fine goals if you're a Marxist, but completely out of whack for the goals of FR.

192 posted on 12/07/2004 11:40:31 AM PST by kevkrom (If people are free to do as they wish, they are almost certain not to do as Utopian planners wish)
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To: APT Project Director; CSM

after all aren't prices going down 20% or more under NST?

No, producer (i.e. product prices) go down under National Retail Sales Tax (NRST), as a consequence of the repeal of business and investment level taxes whose cost get embedded into the price of everything.

The amount paid by the consumer, NRST with the product price remains essentially constant with what he pays today for the same goods and services. The consumer/citizen/voter, however is appraised of the cost of government in his life in the NRST he visibly pays, as the tax is discretely removed out of prices and declared as a whole (in rate & amount) in a clear receipt at each retail purchase.

The same embedded taxes are removed under APT!

And put right back in plus more, with the APT that taxes all transactions involved in business and investment in a way that exponentially accumulates down to the consumer hidden into price of his goods. The APT actually hides more from the citizen than the current tax system with its individual income tax that at least lets some folks know that they are getting hit with a biggy.

Your disengenuousness in this debate is beginning to wear thin.

193 posted on 12/07/2004 11:55:37 AM PST by ancient_geezer
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To: APT Project Director

"Now let's say a $100 product used parts from 5 subs at $20 a piece. Each purchase from the subs would be $20 at 0.25% or 5 cents so the tax in the final product is 25 cents then when the final product is sold another 25 cents is added. That brings the price to $100.50."

Except you fail to recognize the next 10, 15, 50 or 100 levels in the supply chain for this part. That would add thousands, if not tens of thousands of transactions to this one part.

"Now let's talk about the APT tax base -- it is enormous at $856 Trillion (nearly a quadrillion)."

Yet, you fail to actually tell us what this base is. You cited a few examples in a post to me, but the bottom line is that it will be passed to consumers. Businesses are not charitable organizations. Your APT proposal doesn't expand the base, it only spreads the expense over more actions. An example of expansion would be the Flat tax proposal of getting all adults to pay. That would double the tax base.

"ALL THESE LOW RATES ARE ACTUALLY BASED ON ONLY HALF THE TAX BASE AVAILABLE."

This is the second such statement that you have made that makes your philosophy clear. It is pretty easy to deduce that you hope to recover as much taxation as possible and that is why you prefer the "painless" or hidden method. Are you sure you wanted to have a discussion around this subject with conservatives?

I'm beginning to think you are testing the waters and getting conservative responses so you will be prepared for their response.......


194 posted on 12/07/2004 12:02:46 PM PST by CSM
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To: ancient_geezer

So what is your solution to taxes??

John


195 posted on 12/07/2004 12:42:24 PM PST by jrfaug06
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To: CSM
What is this "exponential" talk about cascades. The sum of the taxes on all the parts will equal the tax on the total now I grant you the Total will be taxes one more time when it is sold finally BUT that is only the tax times TWO so I'll give you 0.5% on products with sub parts or $100.50 on a $100 product. Quit talking in generalities and do the math. Aren't prices coming down 20% anyway?BR>
I have been a conservative all my life thank you.

I went over the tax base before and many LARGE parts of it will find it hard to pass the tiny tax on or it will be lost in the bidding. 11% goods and services, 25% securities; 26% foreign exchange related; and 25% money and account transfers. I can't say it any clearer and it has been understood by hundreds and maybe by now a thousand before you.

When I say lost in the bidding/negotiation process you all know very well contract negotiations move plus and minus 5 or 10% so how are you going to twist someone's arm for 0.25%. The same is true for security transactions. Yeah sure the day traders may scream - tough, the markets don't hinge on day traders regardless of what saj says.

Are you freepers really willing to pay and pay and pay so you can feel the pain -- that is also ridiculous.

No one has answered my question about how you explain, under the (un)Fair Tax, the severe double taxation of after-tax savings and after-tax home equity from which retirees draw their living -- that is mean and nobody will address it. I'll be mean to day traders and you take on the retirees and we'll see who wins.
196 posted on 12/07/2004 1:32:40 PM PST by APT Project Director
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To: APT Project Director

"I would rather approach that differently than everyone paying through the nose."

"What we have here is failure to ku-mune-i-cate"
Strother Martin
Cool Hand Luke
about 1954

Your proposal is revenue neutral, yes? That means that the federal government is taking in the same amount of revenue, right? That means that taxpayers are paying the same amount, right? It would seem, then, that everyone would be "paying through the nose" under either system, the difference being that, under the FairTax, they would realize how much they are paying.


197 posted on 12/07/2004 1:53:41 PM PST by phil_will1
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To: APT Project Director

"No one has answered my question about how you explain, under the (un)Fair Tax, the severe double taxation of after-tax savings and after-tax home equity from which retirees draw their living -- that is mean and nobody will address it. I'll be mean to day traders and you take on the retirees and we'll see who wins."

A couple of nationally recognized money managers have forecast that the Dow Jones would double within 2 years of passage of the FairTax. That dwarfs any minr differences in the amount of taxes that they would pay during that period. Furthermore, to the extent that they purchase US produced goods, they would be paying about what they do now. In addition, they would get the rebate up to the poverty level and that would untax them and increase their purchasing power by 15 - 30% up to that level.

So how is it that retirees are being hurt?


198 posted on 12/07/2004 2:07:52 PM PST by phil_will1
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To: APT Project Director
You never answered the obvious question, so here it is again:

and finally, does this or that argument mean that we should all continue to pay 70 TIMES more tax than we have to?

You can't seriously believe this horsesh!t, can you?

If the same amount of money (that's what "revenue neutral" means) will be collected, and our taxes "fall" under this proposal, just who do you think will be paying the difference?


199 posted on 12/07/2004 2:13:04 PM PST by balrog666 (The invisible and the nonexistent look very much alike.)
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To: Eccl 10:2
It would seem to me that placing such a tax on financial transaction such as stock purchases and sales would quickly bring the financial markets to a grinding halt.

Seems it is a small percent of what you pay a broker now. I wouldn't see it grinding the market to a halt anymore than a slight bump in brokers fees would.

200 posted on 12/07/2004 2:18:39 PM PST by Ditto ( No trees were killed in sending this message, but billions of electrons were inconvenienced.)
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