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Lt. Col Jerry B. Killian did not sign CBS memos
9-10-04 | Law is not justice but process

Posted on 09/10/2004 5:55:13 PM PDT by Law is not justice but process

Lieutenant Colonel Jerry B. Killian's signature is a matter of public record. It appears on several documents previously released to the public. Here are links to two examples:

Bush's Request for Discharge: http://users.cis.net/coldfeet/doc27.gif

Misc. Bush personnel files (on page 2): http://www.usatoday.com/news/bushdocs/10-1_2000_Personnel_File.pdf

This signature is not the same as the signature on the memos released by CBS's 60 minutes. See the signatures side by side at this link:

http://tinypic.com/4l1tx

As is clearly evident, the signatures were made by different hands. For instance, the K in Killian alone was made with completely different pen strokes in the CBS documents and the official documents. On the CBS memo the upper and lower diagonal legs of the K were one stroke and ended with the pen looping up lazily. On the official documents the upper diagonal leg was made in one stroke with the vertical leg of the K and the pen went sharply down at the end of the upper diagonal leg.

The two official versions of Killian's signature are dated July 1970 and September 1973. They are nearly identical. The CBS memo signature was allegedly made in May 1972, between the two official versions, but is completely different. A person's signature can not change so fundamentally in 22 months only to revert to its original form 16 months later. The signature on the CBS memos may be an "original" (meaning it was written on the memo, not pasted in), but it is not the signature of Lt. Colonel Jerry B. Killian.

This is irrefutable proof the CBS memos are forgeries.


TOPICS: Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: cbsmemo; killian
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I would ask that someone with more technical ability than I please post the image of the side by side comparison of the signatures found at:

http://tinypic.com/4l1tx

1 posted on 09/10/2004 5:55:13 PM PDT by Law is not justice but process
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To: Law is not justice but process

You may not realize this, but this was discussed, and shown, many times yesterday.


2 posted on 09/10/2004 5:57:04 PM PDT by sharktrager (Nobody deserves our hostility when they are in a time of need.)
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To: Law is not justice but process

http://www.tinypic.com/4l1tx


3 posted on 09/10/2004 5:57:05 PM PDT by loveliberty2
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To: Law is not justice but process
Perhaps fox would be interested in airing them side by side
4 posted on 09/10/2004 5:57:31 PM PDT by patriciamary
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To: Law is not justice but process

5 posted on 09/10/2004 5:58:34 PM PDT by slimer ("The price good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." - Plato)
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To: Law is not justice but process

The two signatures aren't even close.


6 posted on 09/10/2004 5:58:49 PM PDT by airborne (2/504 PIR - 'Devils In Baggy Pants')
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To: slimer

Thank you.


7 posted on 09/10/2004 5:59:39 PM PDT by Law is not justice but process
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To: Law is not justice but process

Your welcome. Good find!


8 posted on 09/10/2004 6:00:25 PM PDT by slimer ("The price good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." - Plato)
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To: Law is not justice but process
A person's signature can not change so fundamentally in 22 months only to revert to its original form 16 months later.

Mine does. It depends on the pen used, the writing surface, my mood, what I'm signing, whether I'm rushed, if my hands are cold, the size of the space to be signed, whether I sign my whole name or my nickname....tons of different things. Not irrefutable proof, but lets keep trying.

9 posted on 09/10/2004 6:01:00 PM PDT by Diverdogz
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To: Law is not justice but process

D Rather admitted that CBS did not have the original documents, but copies. How easy is it to "cut-n-paste" a real signature onto any document?


10 posted on 09/10/2004 6:03:13 PM PDT by RangerM (Perhaps he was comfortable within his skin)
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To: sharktrager
Then why is the validity of this memo still at issue?

The forged signature is proof absolute that the CBS memos are forgeries. And yes, I know we on Free Republic have been saying this for almost three days now. Why is it only discussed here? Any reporter who cares to could write a story irrefutably debunking the CBS memos (and, yes, despite the bias in the press, there are some new media outlets that would not balk at publishing a story favorable to Bush). Why hasn't it happened? Why is the press still citing fonts and Word Processors?

I am a prosecutor by vocation and in my state one of the greatest mistakes a prosecutor can make is to "overtry" a case. That is, to present so much extraneous evidence that the jury is confused and might therefore acquit. The trick is to make the simplest argument possible. In this case the simplest argument is: the CBS memos are forgeries because Lt. Col. Killian was not the person who signed them.

I think the press is intentionally "overtrying" the case against these memos to confuse the jury (the public). We need a way to get the simplest and most understandable explanation to them before that happens.
11 posted on 09/10/2004 6:09:22 PM PDT by Law is not justice but process
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To: RangerM

Then why didn't they paste a real signature into the CBS memo? Instead the signature is not that of Killian. That has puzzled me for 3 days.


12 posted on 09/10/2004 6:11:36 PM PDT by Law is not justice but process
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To: Law is not justice but process
Because nobody has "proved" anything. In fact, they never will. It will always be a question unless someone confesses.
13 posted on 09/10/2004 6:12:25 PM PDT by sharktrager (Nobody deserves our hostility when they are in a time of need.)
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To: Diverdogz

My signature changes too, but not in the order and direction of pen strokes. In these two signatures the K is made by completely different pen strokes in both signatures. I have worked with enough handwriting analysts to know that.

But if you do not take my word for it, get some professional handwriting analysts to look at the signatures. They are not made by the same hand. That IS irrefutable.


14 posted on 09/10/2004 6:14:37 PM PDT by Law is not justice but process
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To: sharktrager

If you needed a confession to get a conviction for forgery, I could get rid of 15% of my caseload right now. If handwriting analysis is sufficient evidence to convince a jury beyond a reasonable doubt that someone should go to prison for forgery, then it is good enough evidence for the Washington Times, or Fox News, or the New York Post, or someone to convince the public these memos are fake.


15 posted on 09/10/2004 6:19:35 PM PDT by Law is not justice but process
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To: Law is not justice but process

You seem to think you are in court. You aren't. This is the media, and the court of public opinion. The rules are different and, honestly, most people will "believe" whatever backs their opinion on Bush.


16 posted on 09/10/2004 6:34:23 PM PDT by sharktrager (Nobody deserves our hostility when they are in a time of need.)
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To: Law is not justice but process
No, It isn't irrefutable. It is your opinion. I'd be interested in comparing another 20 or 30 undisputed samples of the guys signature against the memo to definitively make up even my own mind. The samples are out there - canceled checks, legal documents, other memos, tax returns.... I want to see more than a comparison against one other signature.
17 posted on 09/10/2004 6:44:38 PM PDT by Diverdogz
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To: Diverdogz

I provided links to two official versions of Killian's signature. They were made about 3 years apart and are identical, at least in the type of pen strokes used to make the signatures. There are also two versions of the CBS memo signature. The two official signatures are consistent with each other and the two CBS versions are consistent with each other. And the official versions are consistently different from the CBS versions. That is my point in a nutshell.

You are correct, there must be many other examples out there: probate records, bank records, other TANG records, documents provided by a cooperative family, etc. etc.. Some reporter could get a helluva scoop if they cared to do a little leg work.


18 posted on 09/10/2004 6:57:59 PM PDT by Law is not justice but process
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To: airborne

BUT, but marcel matley says they are...and he's a handwriting expert.


19 posted on 09/10/2004 7:05:34 PM PDT by GailA ( hanoi john, I'm for the death penalty for terrorist, before I impose a moratorium on it.)
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To: GailA

Guess he's wrong, huh?


20 posted on 09/10/2004 7:09:21 PM PDT by airborne (2/504 PIR - 'Devils In Baggy Pants')
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