Shoot The Bastards?

The Autonomist ^ | 8/10/04 | Reginald Firehammer

[Just another Joe]

Not federal income taxes. Your state might be taxing you to high heaven, but a family of four making $40,000 per year is now only paying $48.00 per year in total federal income taxes (for a Tax Freedom Day of January 1).

What country do YOU live in?
I wanta move there.

I'll admit, I make more than $40,000 per year and less than $70,000 per year, with two dependants, and I'll tell you right now that I pay at least $5,000 a year in federal income taxes.
Not to mention the taxes on things like gasoline, etc.

[stuartcr]

There is no solution to the problem..it's just the natural progression of our society. You can either take care of the individuals, or the group...not both.

[forester]

Thanks for the ping. Great article w/some good posts.

[John_7Diamonds]

You facts are wrong. The bottome 50% pay total 4%. So half the people don't pay anything to mention. I am not including social secruity.

BTW, I live on Earth, where do you live?

John

[John_7Diamonds]

Hi,

I re read you post and now I think you misunderstood the premise.

The problem is there is no accountability now in spending because so few people pay significant tax. Would you care how much a movie costs if you did not have to pay to go see it? In other words, if other people paid higher prices so you could see it free, would you care what the other people are paying??

Jo

[tpaine]

But, "government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem," Ronald Reagan eloquently stated. The freedom enjoyed by American citizens in the first one hundred fifty years of this country were not the result of the kind of government we had, but the fact there was so little of it. We have essentially the same kind of government today, but do not enjoy anything like the kind of freedom American citizens enjoyed as little as a hundred, of even sixty, years ago.
[From the article]

See, that's just it. If you live in a lilly-White ivory tower, you *might* be able to tell yourself that we were more free 70 years ago

We the people, - [the socalled 'white' majority] - unarguably were. However, no one claims that it was a perfect society.

when FDR made it illegal to own gold,
-[unconstitutional edict]-
when Jim Crowe meant that Blacks couldn't vote,
-[unconstitutional]-
and when women were legally kept out of military colleges and many universities,
-[freedom of association]- <
as well as actively discriminated against (both women and Blacks) in numerous professions such as Medical, Legal, and in corporate boardrooms.

We can all agree that these were unconstitutional disciminations if written into federal,state, or local ~law~. Most were not. They were custom, bigoted nasty customs to be sure, but writing law to enforce 'customs & moralities' is not easily done in a free republic. We lose the freedom of free association.

And whether it was a Democrat like FDR banning gold, or a fascist temperance movement banning alcohol and gambling, or Democrats using Blacks as living medical experiments against their will (i.e. without consent) ala the Tuskegee Experiment that lasted up until recently, it just doesn't matter to these people.

All those unconstitutional acts "mattered" to a LOT of people.. On gold & booze they were outvoted by a tyranny of the majority, -- for a while.. - Then the system corrected itself.

They don't care that a Republican like Nixon ended the ban on owning gold. they don't care who shut down unethical and illegal medical experiments. They don't care that Republicans died in the streets of the South registering Blacks to vote in the face of the Democratic Party machine's opposition (all of the policemen were Democrats who beat the civil rights marchers on the Edmund Petus Bridge here in Alabama, for instance). Oh no, forget facts. Forget our history.

Such a sad, emotional little appeal. No one is forgetting history, southack. We are learning from it in some areas, [civil rights], but ignoring it in others [big government doesn't work].

Some people are so uneducated and so isolated in their own little worlds that they think we were more free 60 years ago when the military was segregated and half of the South had restraunts with "No Coloreds" signs.

Yep, 'we' were, blacks weren't. -- That's been changed for the better. Many other individual freedoms have been lost.

They don't even know that their precious Hollywood and NYC and their anti-Black racism was why early American TV had White men made up in "blackface" to play Black roles rather than hire Black men...or that blood in Illinois and New Jersey had to be certified as White or Colored at one point, lest some White union schmuck get Black blood into him from an operation.

Sigh. -- Amos & Andy was radio show on TV. Get over it. The two state 'laws' were obviously unconstitutional. Get real.

Even forgetting racism and sexism, America of 20, 30, and 40 years ago had widespread bans on civilians carrying firearms.

Again, unconstitutional. There are lots of unconstitutional laws on the books, hack. They don't prove ~your~ point.

It's only been in the last 15 years that CCW has swept our great nation, re-empowering the individual again.

Under State control & regulation, however. But CCW is a start.

10 years ago it was illegal, yes, illegal to make a profit from anything on the internet, too. The eBay concept was illegal. Amazon.com's concept was illegal. Free Republic taking donations was in the gray area back then. Trading stocks via the Internet was likewise illegal.

A few good laws increasing our individual freedoms do not balance the thousands passed in the same period that decreased them, hack. YOu are simply in denial.

Heck, in two weeks the Assault Weapons Ban will expire, yet we'll still hear these same know-nothings tell us that we're less free today than in the past.

Amusing. -- In 1932 there were NO federal gun laws. Now you claim that we are the "know-nothings"? look in the mirror hack.

We've armed our pilots, repealing the first federal gun control regulations in our history, yet these know-nothings will claim that we are less free today than back when pilots couldn't pack heat.

Pilots were disarmed before the NFA?

How embarassing it must be for the few who spout such nonsense to finally realize that we are *all* more free today than in the past 160 years, and for women and Blacks, that we are more free today than ever before in history. 5 Legislative Days Left Until The AWB Expires

And we will soon have another version of it no matter which 'party' wins the White House.

You live in a dream world hack.

[balrog666]

Marker

[tpaine]

How embarassing it must be for the few who spout such nonsense to finally realize that we are *all* more free today than in the past 160 years, and for women and Blacks, that we are more free today than ever before in history.
42 - Hack

______________________________________

To: Southack
You're largely correct except ---
50 Lurker

______________________________________


To: Southack
Thanks for your #42 rant, it had to be said!
53 - Travis


_____________________________________


See #66.

I find it hard to believe you two agree that we have gained in freedom, -- overall, since 1933.

[Travis McGee]

Southack brought to the table that for blacks and women, America is without a doubt more free than 60 years ago.

Unless you believe that we could claim to be more free 60 years ago (as white men only) and the hell with the blacks.

Now as far as creeping govt interference in our daily personal and economic lives, no doubt we are MUCH less free today.

[Southack]

"I'll admit, I make more than $40,000 per year and less than $70,000 per year, with two dependants, and I'll tell you right now that I pay at least $5,000 a year in federal income taxes."

You pay a whole 10% in federal income taxes. Goodness, what a government slave you are!
< /mocking >

5 Legislative Days Left Until The AWB Expires

[Southack]

"Again, unconstitutional. There are lots of unconstitutional laws on the books, hack. They don't prove ~your~ point."

Only to you, and only because you *missed* my point. My point was not whether the freedom-choking laws and customs of the past were constitutional or not, but rather, that we are more free today than then.

What can we do today that we couldn't do in 1930? Buy sell, and drink alcohol. What can we do today that we couldn't do in 1935? Buy, sell, and trade gold. What can we do today that we couldn't do in 1940? Join a desegregated, color-blind military. What can we do today that we couldn't do in 1950 without risk to life and limb? Register Blacks to vote. What can we do today that we couldn't do in 1960? Put our daughters through any medical, legal, or military university. What can we do today that we couldn't do in 1970? Carry concealed weapons. What can we do today that we couldn't do in 1980? Arm our commercial pilots. What can we do today that we couldn't do in 1990? Make money on the Internet (remember, the internet was around back then, but it was against the law to use it for profit or personal gain).

We don't have to fill out environmental impact statements before building logging roads anymore, either.

so whether talking about Blacks who can now vote, women who can now get any education and job that they want, or the rest of us making a living on the internet, in gold, or in our forests, we are incontrovertibly more free today than 70, 40, or even 10 years ago. We certainly pay less in federal taxes now than in the last half century.

More free today. Less free in the past. That was my point, and I've given you a substantial number of examples of precisely that fact.

In return, you've claimed that we are less free today than in the past. Where are your examples?

5 Legislative Days Left Until The AWB Expires

[Southack]

c#71

[B4Ranch]

Blacks, Gold, Politics, Racism, Sexism, Taxes and Self Defense are the issues you speak of.

You praise the court system and our government legislators for correcting social errors in these topics.

Ronald Reagan eloquently stated "government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem,".

Well, you should know me by now. You registered Oct 4, 1998 and I came along Jan 18, 2000 after lurking for a year or so. I just have to shake these good threads to make sure everything worth while has been talked about.

Did American society require the Federal Courts to ensure equal-rights legislation?

Blacks were bound to second class citizenship by America's U.S. Supreme Court in the Plessy v. Ferguson (1896)which upheld "separate but equal" facilities. Segregation of Blacks from Whites was formally approved and
legitimized.

It wasn't until WWII that some outlawing of discrimination in defense industries (1941) took place. After the war, partial desegregation of the armed forces (1948) started to occur.

Ending the segregationist practices and racial inequalities that were court ordered across the nation and particularly in the South was of much value to our nation. I have had some interesting experiences concerning "separate but equal" facilities".

I think this separatism would have occurred on it's own, just much slower.

President Nixon's decision to de-link the dollar from the gold standard, wasn't done for yours or my benefit. The system of fixed monetary currency convertibility was in serious trouble.

Foreign Banks at the held roughly 80 billion dollars or 8 times the supply of US gold reserves.

The Smithsonian Agreement prevented the freefall of the Dollar if the Europeans had forced their credit claims and currency speculators went wild. This agreement also cost a 10 percent devaluation of US currency.

Do you still want to say Thank you?

I have been instructed to own both and I do so only because my consultants have proven their worth to me previously.

Politics. WOW! That's a subject we have both ranted on for years. Politicians are known to be self centered and corrupt. Most of them are attorneys whom I wouldn't hire to write me a contract for the sale of a dog house.

Without their Chief of Staff, 98% couldn't analyze the effects on society of a Bill let alone write one.

Sexism is a great topic. During WWII most of our warplanes were built by our moms and grandmothers. I've seen a farmers wife operate a round roll hay baler which drops 1 ton bales as smoothly as an Olympic skater.

When women keep themselves covered up they can work beside men with no problem. Would you hire a gal who likes tight clothes to work with the crew? Just watch production fall and the accident rate increase.

Yes, it is their right to walk around with 60% of their skin exposed and no bra. Just don't even try and tell me that I have to hire her.

The easiest way to settle the "female soldier on the front lines" problem is to form a volunteer battalion of 100% women. In five years when the battalion is not fully staffed cancel the idea.

Taxes another good subject. How much would everyones taxes drop if we did not have such loose regulations for social services? Or if we shut down half of the new state and federal agencies. The three and four letter agencies" (alphabet soup) that have appeared in the last forty years. All of a sudden we cannot survive without them! BS!

Self Defense is going to become shoot, shovel and shut up if the cities don't quit trying to turn America into a Great Britain.

Most of these problems are ones we have created for ourselves. Will society ever retreat from the "gains"? Of course not. Not a chance in Hell.

[Southack]

"Ending the segregationist practices and racial inequalities that were court ordered across the nation and particularly in the South was of much value to our nation. I have had some interesting experiences concerning "separate but equal" facilities"."

So are we more free today than in the past before those changes occurred, in your opinion?

5 Legislative Days Left Until The AWB Expires

[B4Ranch]

>>I find it hard to believe you two agree that we have gained in freedom, -- overall, since 1933.<<

I was shocked to see Travis agreeing with Southack.

President Wilson said:
"I have unwittingly ruined my country. A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our system of credit is concentrated. The growth of the nation, therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men. We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated Governments in the civilized world - no longer a Government by free opinion, no longer a Government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but the Government by the opinion and duress of small groups of dominated men."

Even before the Federal Reserve Act was passed, Thomas Jefferson predicted a huge national debt if we violated our Constitution and allowed a bank like the FED to exist.

Plank #5 of "The Communist Manifesto" had called for just such a central bank. [It is probably the largest generator of debt in the world.]

Feb. 23, 1954 - Senator William Jenner of Indiana says before the U.S. Senate: "Today the path to total dictatorship in the United States can be laid by strictly legal means, unseen and unheard by Congress, the President, or the people. We have a well-organized political action group in this country, determined to destroy our Constitution and establish a one-party state. It has a foothold within our Government, and its own propaganda apparatus. One may call this group by many names. Some people call it socialism, some collectivism. I prefer to call it 'democratic centralism.' The important point to remember about this group is not its ideology but its organization. It is a dynamic, aggressive, elite corps, forcing its way through every opening, to make a breach for a collectivist one-party state. It operates secretly, silently, continuously to transform our Government without our suspecting the change is underway. This secret revolutionary corps understands well the power to influence the people by an elegant form of brainwashing. We see this, for example, in the innocent use of words like 'democracy' in place of 'representative government.' "

Nov. 13, 1963 - It is alleged that just ten days prior to his assassination, President John F. Kennedy tells a Columbia University audience: "The high office of President has been used to foment a plot to destroy the Americans' freedom, and before I leave office I must inform the citizens of this plight."

http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=160

[B4Ranch]

No

[Southack]

So what personal freedoms do *you* claim we've lost over the past 60, 30, and 10 years?!

5 Legislative Days Left Until The AWB Expires

[Southack]

"Feb. 23, 1954 - Senator William Jenner of Indiana says before the U.S. Senate: "Today the path to total dictatorship in the United States can be laid by strictly legal means, unseen and unheard by Congress, the President, or the people. We have a well-organized political action group in this country, determined to destroy our Constitution and establish a one-party state."

Though it's half a century later and the war between the two Parties continues...

5 Legislative Days Left Until The AWB Expires

[B4Ranch]

The Repubkicans had the first chance to help free the Negro race, then the Democrats took a shot at it.

Boy, did they ever screw it up. Drugs and alcohol were introduced to a very religous population which in less than one generation, by controlling available work positions would determine that Blacks would be the prime resident of government housing and ghettos.

If I was a person of the Negro race, you would never see me smile and I sure as hell wouldn't vote for the politician who was determined to keep my race at the bottom.

[B4Ranch]

Do you own land and have you calculated the financial costs of the "small" fees and taxes that you must pay each day, month, quarter or annually?

I'm referring to the taxes on such thing as rubber, cotton, cars, etc that are added on to the retail cost without anyone informing you that they are included?

Have you ever wished to cut down a few acres of trees on you own land to thin them out? Who makes the costs feasible to burn them instead?

Have you ever used your own bulldozer to cut a new cattle pond because you wanted to divide some pastures?

Do you remember when farmers and ranchers left the ditches and corners of their crops for the local bunnies and birds?

If I wanted the government to teach my children about sex I would at least like to discuss the decision first. Were you given the opportunity? I wasn't! I sure did't agree that when my girls were in school if their Mom had given them a couple a Asprin for the monthly pains they neede the schools permission to take them. Who told me that my daughters monthly menustration prooblems would become part of an official record? Nobody, that's who!

When girls were under 18 they were allowed to have a school selected Doctor perform an abortion without notifying me or my wife!

Freedoms? Bullshit!