Please let me know if you want on or off my Pro-Life Ping List.
Posted on 07/25/2004 10:03:03 PM PDT by Coleus
Great job Coleus.
You hit a sensitive area and that is a GOOD thing.
Time to wake Marvin. Marvin you up?!
Please let me know if you want on or off my Pro-Life Ping List.
It must s**k being you.
And I thought engineers had brains. I'm wrong again. IVF treatments kill babies, it's as simple as that.
Furthermore .... this stuff is NOT rocket science.
Yes, I agree. People are going to be in for a big surprise. The callous disregard for embryos, and their disgarding, smacks of Hitlarian utilitarianism. What a shame that people can't or won't see it.
See post 63. I would not want to know your type.
It's not insanity and it's not difficult to understand, if you have a mind to. Apparently, you don't.
That’s it…keep digging! A few more feet and we’ll be down into hell.
Pings should work like beepers.
see 68
I'm workin on it. (he-he)
Kind of like the way the standard for what a consevative is has been lowered, to include a guy like Arlen Specter.
You give numbers that are fabricated. You have no way of knowing whether one oocyte or 24 were harvested each time, and you have no way of knowing how many embryos were fertilized. There is absolutely no way of knowing whether any embryos were frozen. I wish you had not made this personal and that you had not accused anyone of killing.
I appreciate the work that the Catholic Church has done for the prolife effort, but for every help (and the men you name have been incredibly helpful. I was privileged to hear Dr Dorflinger at the Center for Bioethics and Human Dignity conference last week), there is a hindrance such as this. What a shame we can't agree on not taking life. I remember the debates breaking down in the early 70's when we had so much to gain if we had been able to stick together in opposing abortion --- and we lost.
Stick with stories like last week's story from the NYTimes to teach. Or pick your audience with more care.
Best part of your rant...
Some of the responses on this thread show perfectly in miniature what truth brings out of the hearts of liars, what turning on the lights in a cockroach-infested house does, and what demons do when they are confronted by Jesus Christ: Lots of squirming, scurrying, and screaming.
Being made infertile by an abortion at the age of 19, but retaining one ovary and my uterus, I've had many, including Christians, recommend IVF to me. Once I became saved this proceedure was not an option, because I willingly submit to the will of my Creator, and will not seek to usurp His Sovereign Authority. I've already learned the hard way the horrible consequences of choosing to live by my own wisdom.
Many have not learned, recognized, or admitted this to themselves yet; self-will keeps the eyes of their understanding darkened.
Very good. A lot of people won't understand the reasoning though, spiritual blindness is the main hindrance for them. If you don't believe life begins at conception none of it will make sense.
Although 6 months was a short period of time to turn to IVF, I know of some doctors who will begin the advanced reproductive technologies at 6 months if the woman's cycle is well-established and tracked, and if she is approaching her 40's. Why wait a year if it's obvious (for example) that a woman isn't ovulating, or if there's male factor infertility?
As for the original article, there are couples who "donate" fertilized embryos to other couples who cannot even do IVF but where the woman wishes to become pregnant. It's an interesting alternative, but if it came down to needing IVF to concieve, I personally would resort to infant adoption.
Dear Coleus,
In science, a crucial judgment is whether to do a thing, just because we can.
Fortunately, not all who have found themselves similarly situated have done this thing, just because they can.
sitetest
Murder is murder whatever the means used to accomplish it.
Thanks for the ping!
Boy, this really brought out some ready to brand Coleus as crazy. If the end result is the killing of an embryo, a fertilized egg - person in the making, how is it any different from the end result of fetal stem cell research or plain old abortion? It's not.
Thanks Coleus for bringing the discussion. Don't mind the ones who've tried to brand you.
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