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Why I Am Now Behind Arnold
me

Posted on 08/12/2003 9:52:14 AM PDT by DrMartinVonNostrand

I have slowly come to the conclusion that California needs Arnold. Republicans need Arnold, and above all, California Republicans need Arnold.

I had been leaning towards McClintock, and I must admit, I made that decision before Arnold threw his hat into the ring. I welcomed the move when he did, but I still had reservations. I had gotten pretty excited over McClintock's vision, particularly his desire to void the Davis energy contracts and his general desire to stick it to the Democrats. I was also justifiably concerned at first about Arnold's talk of handing the treasury over to "the children".

But one has to be able to discern politics from policy. Everyone who wants to win elective office has to pay lipservice to "the children". It is the national passtime of politicians. I think when Arnold says "the children should have the first call of state Treasury" it is followed by an unspoken qualifier of "before illegal immigrants, welfare recipients, and special interests." He is simply putting forth his priorities, and they lay in stark contrast to Gray Davis and Cruz Bustamante's. He is quite savvy, so he isn't going to come out and say it in those words. He knows highlighting what is his priorities gets much better press than highlighting what isn't. He wants to reassure the soccer moms who have been frightened by Davis' threats of cutting funding to schools that he will be looking elsewhere to cut.

Arnold is very mindful of the hurdles he faces by running as a Republican in such a liberal state, so he will take extra measures to make traditional Democratic voters feel comfortable voting for him. It is what he has to do right now if he wants to win, and it seems to be working brilliantly.

Some conservatives will argue against Schwarzenegger because he opposed the impeachment of Bill Clinton. But Arnold understood the articles of impeachment that were brought were a pretty weak justification. Right or wrong, they were too easily construed as a right-wing lynching. He recognized it as too divisive and knew it could only further poison the political atmosphere and ultimately damage the Republican party.

Perhaps if Ken Starr had the convictions to pursue the serious matters of Whitewater, Chinagate, Filegate, or the murder of Vincent Foster, then Arnold would have seen it differently, just as the rest of America would have. But clearly Starr had no will to do so. It's hard to understand why, but perhaps he didn't want to expose that level of corruption in the highest office out of the long-term best interest of the American political system. Exposing Clinton's ties to the Dixieland mafia and Red China could have brought the entire government to its knees. It would have been a short-term victory for Republicans, but just as Nixon understood when he covered for Kennedy and Johnson over the Pentagon Papers, the long-term damage to the nation as a whole would have been far too great. Anyways, had Clinton actually been removed from office as a lame duck on those flimsy charges, we would have a President Gore in office right now. Arnold knew, just as everyone else did, that this was not going to happen considering it required a two-thirds majority in the Senate. Surely he understood that impeachment was a lose-lose proposition for Republicans so it was a mistake to go down that road. It was important for him to remain above it all for the sake of his own political future.

Some will argue that what we need right now is someone sort of financial wizard to fix the budget, and Arnold just doesn't qualify. But the truth is we really only need someone who can admit that Gray Davis has made some huge mistakes. Anyone but Gray Davis will do.

I hate to admit it, but the whole budget crisis is being about as overplayed for political reasons as the federal deficit in the '90s was (and is again). When it comes down to brass tacks, I think even the Democrats will bite the bullet and fix it. Yes, I know you're cringing, I am too, but it's the truth. The issue here isn't that the Democrats are incapable or even unwilling to fixing the budget. It's merely about how they want to fix it: the usual liberal approach of skyrocketing taxes. Either way, California isn't going to drop into the ocean or become a third world nation.

As far as Arnold not being a "social conservative", neither am I, and neither is California. A social conservative is not going to win a statewide election here for a long time to come. I fit in more along the lines of a fiscal conservative, just as Arnold is, and a "Constitutional conservative" with libertarian tendencies. Piety is not a prerequisite for my support, and too much of it may even lose it. I don't begrudge anyone their religious beliefs, but I do belive strongly in Jefferson's "wall of seperation between church and state". I also believe in strict interpritation of the First Ammendment, and that freedom of religion also entails freedom from religion. I realize those of you in the religious-right do not agree because this doesn't reinforce your personal religious beliefs, but not everything should be about our own personal whims and narrow agendas. Defending our own freedom as individuals must always be a higher objective. Otherwise it may be you they come for next. The Constitution protects everyone, or it protects no one. I think there are a lot of people on both extremes who forget that sometimes.

Even though some will say for these various reasons that Schwarzenegger is not the ideal conservative candidate, it is important for everyone to be pragmatic and pick their battles wisely. Right now we should be looking at long-term goals. An expedient victory in the recall of a conservative candidate by a 20 percent plurality is going to be counterproductive in the long-term. What are you going to do when Bill Simon is elected and the drive to recall him begins October 8th and qualifies three weeks later?

Electing Arnold, who can come to office with a true mandate and bring California together, will pay off big in the perception wars. Conservatives will never get their agenda anywhere in California as long as it is taboo to even vote for Republicans here. The longer Democrats have a complete lock on the state, the further left we will drift. Even if Arnold can't change the course right away, he can at least slow the momentum.

Personally, my goal is the destruction of the Democratic party and the liberal agenda far more than it is advancing any conservative single-issue. I have far more hate for left-wing Democrats than I have love for right-wing Republicans. I would be happy simply with a return to sanity at this point.

You can't walk a mile until you take the first step. For right now we all need to be concentrating on the jouney one step at a time or we will never reach the final destination. You have to at least open the door, which is now closed and locked here. It seems like a lot of right-wingers around here would rather rant and rave and pound on the door in futility than grab it by the handle.

I think I've finally figured that one out. For the death-before-electibility crowd, it's not about advancing their cause on earth, it's about earning a place in heaven.

As for the rest of us, we have to make a decision: do we want a small victory, or a huge defeat?


TOPICS: Heated Discussion
KEYWORDS: 1eternalvignotincali; california; davis; election; governor; guessmyotherid; imatroll; mcclintock; recall; schwarzenegger; schwarzenutter
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To: RS
George Deukmejian.

The only thing that has changed since then is the amount of voter fraud. Same old hippie leftists, same conservative base.
521 posted on 08/12/2003 11:18:55 PM PDT by Canticle_of_Deborah (The 12th Republican Commandment: "Thou shalt not alienate thy base")
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To: RS
McClintock is being supported by a prominent Democrat who broke ranks and has donated to his campaign. He is respected by both sides of the aisle. He is likely the only one who CAN work with the Dems and Repubs in the legislature because he already has been. Here's the letter to the editor of the Ventura Star.



The Ventura Star (a letter to the editor)

"McClintock should win"

I've been a registered Democrat all my life. From 1983 to 1989, I provided the Democratic Party with free rent and utilities in my Village Oaks Office Park in Westlake Village and free headquarters for congressional, senatorial and presidential candidates.

I was repeatedly named Ventura County Democrat of the Year. One day, the Democratic Party announced in the newspaper that it was shocked that the Democrat of the Year was supporting Republican state Assemblyman Tom McClintock. I answered that I always support the best man, regardless of party affiliation.

If all Californians only knew what I know about Tom's record as state Assemblyman and state senator, they would vote for him to be California's next governor. He is honest, hard-working, dedicated and innovative. He has sponsored fabulous state legislation and is now the most qualified gubernatorial candidate of any party. I'm so sure of this that I'm donating $1,000 to his campaign -- because I love California.

-- Robert A. Felburg, Costa Mesa

522 posted on 08/12/2003 11:25:23 PM PDT by Canticle_of_Deborah (The 12th Republican Commandment: "Thou shalt not alienate thy base")
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To: Canticle_of_Deborah
This will be the only time I respond to you because you are:

a) paranoid
b) delusional
c) proof of the vast right-wing conspiracy
d) all of the above


For your information, since you seem to be severely lacking in that department, I have made plenty of pro-McClintock posts, as well as anti-Simon ones.

I've stated repeatedly that I support McClintock, but he just can't win. I simply decided that both Simon and McClintock would be bad for Republicans' political ambitions in the state right now because of the nature of the recall - Think Clinton impeachment backlash.

I just have a general interest in my state's upcoming recall election. I think it will redefine California politics for a long time to come.
523 posted on 08/12/2003 11:25:33 PM PDT by DrMartinVonNostrand
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To: Canticle_of_Deborah
"Same old hippie leftists, same conservative base."

So what happened ?
Why a Dem Legislature,
Why Boxer and Feinstein,
Why Davis ?

524 posted on 08/12/2003 11:28:19 PM PDT by RS (nc)
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To: DrMartinVonNostrand
You're an idiot. Tell Arnie and Bush you failed your mission.
525 posted on 08/12/2003 11:29:25 PM PDT by Canticle_of_Deborah (The 12th Republican Commandment: "Thou shalt not alienate thy base")
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To: RS
Let's try this again.

A unknown Dem majority, lack of national support and rampant V.O.T.E.R. F.R.A.U.D.
526 posted on 08/12/2003 11:31:40 PM PDT by Canticle_of_Deborah (The 12th Republican Commandment: "Thou shalt not alienate thy base")
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To: Canticle_of_Deborah
"...He has sponsored fabulous state legislation ..."

... and what has he gotten passed ?


Tell me of his success, not that he "tried hard"

What has he delivered ?

What CAN he deliver if elected ?

Truthfully - what does he think he can actually acomplish if elected for these 3 years ?
527 posted on 08/12/2003 11:32:58 PM PDT by RS (nc)
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To: RS
http://www.tommcclintock.com
528 posted on 08/12/2003 11:34:08 PM PDT by Canticle_of_Deborah (The 12th Republican Commandment: "Thou shalt not alienate thy base")
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To: Canticle_of_Deborah
"A unknown Dem majority, lack of national support and rampant V.O.T.E.R. F.R.A.U.D."

... and in the current election these will be countered by whom and just how ?
529 posted on 08/12/2003 11:34:56 PM PDT by RS (nc)
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To: RS
And I respect your views, probably more than you respect mine.

However, if someone supports background checks, waiting periods and not defining the 2cnd Amendment to include any and all types of firearms... is that person not a true Republican in your opinion?

530 posted on 08/12/2003 11:35:16 PM PDT by Tamzee (I was a vegetarian until I started leaning toward the sunlight...... Rita Rudner)
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To: Canticle_of_Deborah
George Deukmejian.

The only thing that has changed since then is the amount of voter fraud. Same old hippie leftists, same conservative base.


I think you may be a little off track her, the only reason Duke beat Bradley was because Bradley was Black and the Duke got the hispanic vote...Bradley was leading in the polls right down to the wire.....if Mclintock was the only Conservative running now, he might win, but with Arnold & Simon in the race, he doesn't stand a chance IMO...

531 posted on 08/12/2003 11:35:31 PM PDT by rolling_stone
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To: Canticle_of_Deborah
http://www.tommcclintock.com

... and just how will he drop the budget by 9.5% ?

might as well say 10% of 50% How do you intend to do it ?

Let him get just ONE school district to say they will drop their expendatures by 9.5% if he gets elected...
532 posted on 08/12/2003 11:39:48 PM PDT by RS (nc)
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To: rolling_stone
I believe Duke served two terms, did he not? I don't recall right now and I'm too tired to look it up.

Regardless, I agree with you that unless Simon drops out McClintock is not likely to win. Simon needs to put his ego aside and do the right thing as Issa did. Arnold has a completely different base than McClintock. Right now, his supporters are mainly harassing conservatives to put aside their beliefs and sell their souls to a Dem in Republican clothing. It's a hard sell because conservatives are much smarter than liberals.
533 posted on 08/12/2003 11:40:15 PM PDT by Canticle_of_Deborah (The 12th Republican Commandment: "Thou shalt not alienate thy base")
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To: DrMartinVonNostrand
I love how easily you abase yourself to flinging insults and while telling us how we all ought to work together, with your ilk in charge of course.

I've stated repeatedly that I support McClintock, but he just can't win.

So? It isn't true.

I simply decided that both Simon and McClintock would be bad for Republicans' political ambitions in the state right now because of the nature of the recall - Think Clinton impeachment backlash.

Upon what basis do you lump Tom McClintock with Bill Simon, other than that they diverge from Ahnold? Abortion (the ultimate red herring in a State election)? Gay rights (which the vast majority of Californians think has gone too far)? Gun control (ditto)? State controlled child care (the public schools being so popular with parents these days)? So pray tell, what makes him so attractive to the general public (much less conservatives) that voted by hefty margins for heterosexual marriage, the end of bilingual ed, and the end of affirmative action?

He isn't Bustamante. Great selling point. If it's all you've got, you've got a real challenge as you go down to the wire.

534 posted on 08/12/2003 11:41:14 PM PDT by Carry_Okie (The environment is too complex and too important to be managed by politics.)
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To: Tamsey
"However, if someone supports background checks, waiting periods and not defining the 2cnd Amendment to include any and all types of firearms... is that person not a true Republican in your opinion?"

Nope- just someone who does not believe in the 2nd amendment

No such thing as "true Republican"... "big tent" remember ?
535 posted on 08/12/2003 11:41:52 PM PDT by RS (nc)
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To: Carry_Okie
What you don't understand is that independents and traditional Slave Party constituencies are ready and willing to support programs and ideas that originate from conservative principles. That is why so many conservative ballot propositions have passed by wide margins in recent years.

I totally agree with that. This is what is so ironic about California. Californians have pretty solid moderate to conservative ideals, but they consistently fall victim to the image gap.

Put simply, the support Republican principles and Democrat personalities.

I think most of those 6 million people are fairly shallow and image-concious. They don't know too much about politics other than who TV tells them they should vote for - and more often - who they shouldn't vote for. Years of subtle sniping of Republicans on shows like the Simpsons and Letterman have sunk in.


Out of your numbers, how many of those "independents" and Democrats actually vote? That is where your case is misleading. Turnout among conservatives, and especially in special elections, is historically higher.

That is the beauty of Arnold as Governor. He can bring in new people to the Republican party who traditionally haven't paid attention to politics.

This isn't a strategy for THIS election. It is much more long-term. Arnold will bring in huge amounts of new Republicans in California so we can win FUTURE elections.
Perhaps the Senate in 2004.

536 posted on 08/12/2003 11:42:38 PM PDT by DrMartinVonNostrand
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To: Canticle_of_Deborah
Duke served two terms and won the second against Bradley by a larger margin than the first....
537 posted on 08/12/2003 11:43:08 PM PDT by rolling_stone
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To: DrMartinVonNostrand
Put simply, the support Republican principles and Democrat personalities.

Gray Davis has a personality?

ROTFLMAO!!!

That's a patently false assertion. What the voters support is tangible promises. Republicans give them principles but can't explain how they work. Democrats put up hard cash (ours) to buy off one constituency at a time. It's that simple.

It is high time to make clear that the truly creative ideas come from the marketplace, and conservatives know how to organize it to deliver and can show how it will work.

At least, that's what I'm doing.

538 posted on 08/12/2003 11:48:06 PM PDT by Carry_Okie (The environment is too complex and too important to be managed by politics.)
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To: Carry_Okie
Give 'em hell Mark. Some of us are paying attention.
539 posted on 08/12/2003 11:50:07 PM PDT by nunya bidness (sic utere tuo ut alienum non laedas)
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To: RS
RS said: "Get your facts right... vouchers are used only if there is not a budget in place - which there is - not a good one, but it's there. "

Even with a "budget", let's assume that the so-called deficit bonds don't happen and the tripling of the car tax is not allowed, how does the State provide cash for payments that exceed its revenue? Is there a short term line of credit available for this purpose and can it be exceeded? There must be a limit somewhere.

540 posted on 08/12/2003 11:51:40 PM PDT by William Tell
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