Why I Outsource Offshore

Friday, July 18, 2003 | Me

[Lion in Winter]

Mr. Bannon, you see they do not care if some Americans are out of work just as long as it is NOT they who have no job.

Simply law of the jungle there, old boy.

Too bad there are many conservatives who are junglesque "savage beasts" on this F.R. site.

Ah, too bad. How depressing?

Good luck old man in your search for gainful employment.

Wish I could offer you something.

[Lion in Winter]

Just as I suspected, you make a living from this outsourcing... why, of course, you support it.

[meatloaf]

There's a bigger picture than just cheaper labor. I talked to a state bridge engineer a few days ago and he mentioned something in passing that stuck. "We can't build the infrastructure in the present that we did in the past." The cost of doing things in the US has risen from other things and not just unions or high priced professional salaries.

It's not going to be pretty.

[mo]

Prices are going down over here-for most everything but housing. Nothing you buy this year in Walmart is as expensive as it was 8-10 years ago. The point is that given the tax and regulatory burden an American taxpayer is required to support-a dollar spent offshore by business is better spent. This is precisely why all industry and business is leaving and why those of us trying to compete against an international community are handicapped.

[Ramius]

Sorry Race. I understand the frustration but I haven't yet heard from you how you would fix it. If we can't compete with the world it remains OUR problem not theirs and not the fault of the consumer, wherever they may be, domestic or otherwise.

As far as the USCG is concerned, since you must be talking about the Aerospaciale H65 Dolphin, which American helicopter company makes a competive product, again?

This might be a good time to bring up: In order to get the contract, Aerospaciale was forced to put GE engines in the helo. This compromised the power, and created huge reliability issues. It's sorta like saying we'll buy a bunch of jaguars, but we want GM V8's in them. Sure it can be made to work but it will sacrifice reliability and performance. Maintenance issues are out of this world.

Furthermore... is the american taxpayer then required to pay more for helicopters in order to "buy american" at any price? Gee... thanks... as a taxpayer that pays enough to support a whole platoon of marines I'm really really grateful.

[FoxPro]

Each time we allow technological jobs to leave our shore we strengthen our economic enemies?

Excellent post! Actually, I could argue this issue fervently either way. What does that mean. Am I frigin schizophrenic?

[RaceBannon]

Good Grief, it is not about high wages or anything like that!!

While we can whine about losing our high paying job, the problem is that we are losing the ability to produce!!

The machines necessary to make things are moving to China!! The replacement costs of new machines is prohibitive unless you have a market for it, only if you cannot make it cheaper than a slave can, you have no market!!

What product am I going to make that cannot be reverse engineered by a geek with a set of verniers and a tape measure and calipers and shadowgraph?? Even if I did design somehting unique, since we handed the technology of machine tools and the methods to produce to these slave labor countries, my new product will only exist in competitive form in this country for no more than 3 years. Once it makes it overseas, and is recognized as a commodity that grreedy westerners will buy, it will be copied and mass produced for pennies on the dollar, and we GAVE THEM the means to do so!! They didnt develop it!! They didnt design it!! They didnt spend the money necessary to finalize the design or methods, they just copied what they saw or outright bought the machines that the originating company used to make this product!!

Goodness! People are so stupid!! We are handing away the store on this stuff, the technology we are giving away is not just intellectual, it is a the physical machines we used to make widgets, buttons, fabrics, filters, oils, sheet metal, (did you know that? Even the simple sheet metal bending industries are losing work to China?? The simple press brake is going to disappear because a SLAVE can learn how to bend metal just as well!!)

This is why I scream at this: Most people who are the free trade cheerleaders must have never worked in manufacturing in their life. They have no clue as to what is happening to us!!

[RockyMtnMan]

We are giving away the means to ruin our country and we are calling it FREE TRADE!!

All true capitalists should know nothing is FREE.

[RaceBannon]

I would suggest the Kaman SH-2, one that is already in the US Navy inventory, is small enough to fit on Cutters, and has a proven track record AND IS MADE IN AMERICA!!

[William Terrell]

It would be like this, I think.

When an assortment of states, like our 50 for instance, hold legal sway over a central government, like the fed for instance, a party seeking to take that union over and remake it would have to conquer and occupy each of those 50 states.

With a central government holding sovereign will over its member states, all such a party would have to do is take over the central government. Works the same on a global scale.

A global sovereignty, with all resources under a Hydraulic Empire, would be so much worse, we would lose the meaning of "bad". Power brings out the evil in men's hearts.

I'd just as soon give up any pleasant aspects of global sovereignty to avoid that one bad one. Man has not been able to govern himself for millennia, but to have him not be able to govern himself globally rises the stakes much too high.

[PuNcH]

So we should do what they do? Is that the answer?

I dont think you understood. There is NO free trade! Can I make that anymore clear? You support a communist govt and it's slave labor practices. YOU DO WHAT THEY DO.

The US Constitution is not comparable to communist china. Protecting American society does not equal socialism.

On these threads what the constitution calls for is considered socialism while sweat shops and slave labor competing directly with our high taxed and regulated society is considered "free trade".

[RockyMtnMan]

Wait until China learns all our manufacturing secrets and is responsible for all intellectual capital and new development efforts. At that point China will give Corporate America (tm) the boot and compete with them directly at a far reduced rate. Then the corporations will be screaming, protect us it's unfair.

[palmer]

Freedom isn't free. Remember that when you buy your cheap Chinese made TV.

[RockyMtnMan]

You're pinging the wrong team. My point was Free Trade is a sham the Chinese and Indians are getting a much better deal than a 20% discount on TV's.

[FoxPro]

What is the REAL reason your wife left you?

It wasent because of the money situation totally, and you know that. That helped no doubt. I wish her well....Sort of.

[Ramius]

While we can whine about losing our high paying job, the problem is that we are losing the ability to produce!!

You know, Race, I think maybe we don't disagree by very much. I agree that we're losing our ability to manufacture in a way that is competitive with the rest of the world. There are lots of reasons. Some of them rest on unions, some of them rest on regulation.

I don't happen to think, though, that we should place blame on the consumer. Consumers must make decisions based on cost-effectiveness and little else.

[buccaneer81]

I thought it was a kitten?

That's if you use your left hand ;-)

[Lion in Winter]

OH, my!

Do you mean they will actually build the bridges in Singapore, for example and just haul it over for installation?

Isn't that just amazing!

I am positively in awe. Of course, that will save billions in labor costs.

Just one small detail, however. Where will they find the plane big enough to fly it into place?

Merely curious, Mr. Meatloaf. */:^ )

[Ramius]

OK... so what WOULD you do? How do you fix it?

[palmer]

Sorry, you sounded like a "capitalist", but I guess that's the label you were giving them.