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To: CobaltBlue
DI hOU KAI EPOIHSEN TOUS AIWNAS

I wouldn't try to translate it myself these days, but a literal word for word transliteration and lookup is:

DI OU KAI EPOIHSEN TOUS AIWNAS
through whom indeed he made the ages

From the Bible there's definitely supporting evidence God created all things through Jesus (the Word). And I could always use prayer, thanks.

3,474 posted on 07/16/2003 11:41:37 AM PDT by scripter (Thousands have left the homosexual lifestyle.)
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To: scripter; js1138
I think I've had an epiphany.

I've been puzzling and puzzling over the assertion that Christ created the Universe.

Finally, this evening I realized that it was completely contrary to the Apostle's Creed, to wit:

I believe in God, the Father Almighty,
    the Creator of heaven and earth,
    and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord:
Who was conceived of the Holy Spirit,
    born of the Virgin Mary,
    suffered under Pontius Pilate,
    was crucified, died, and was buried.
He descended into hell. [see Calvin]
The third day He arose again from the dead.
He ascended into heaven
    and sits at the right hand of God the Father Almighty,
    whence He shall come to judge the living and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy catholic church,
    the communion of saints,
    the forgiveness of sins,
    the resurrection of the body,
    and life everlasting.
Amen.

Peeling it back, I think the stumbling block is how one translates the prologue in the Gospel of John. I propose to use the Tyndale translation:

1 In the beginnynge was the worde and the worde was with God: and the worde was God.

2 The same was in the beginnynge with God.

3 All thinges were made by it and with out it was made nothinge that was made.

4 In it was lyfe and the lyfe was ye lyght of men

5 and the lyght shyneth in the darcknes but the darcknes comprehended it not.

The King James Version uses the Latin Vulgate, but Tyndale used the Greek, admittedly from Erasmus' version, not the earliest versions. Still, all the translations from the Greek seem to track Tyndale, not the King James version.

Going back to the ancient Greek, the strongest assertion you can make about Christ vis-a-vis the creation is that God the Father created though Christ. And that's only if you believe that Logos is identical to Christ, which isn't apparent from the plain language of John.
3,704 posted on 07/16/2003 8:04:03 PM PDT by CobaltBlue (Never voted for a Democrat in my life.)
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