'Intelligent design' theory threatens science classrooms

Seattle Post Intelligencer ^ | 11/22/2002 | ALAN I. LESHNER

[js1138]

You are going to an Al Gore lover for your accessment.

No, I'm not. The assessment of Hovind's "thesis" is quite clear and stands on its own merits, regardless of who wrote it. Anyone can check the facts and anyone who wants to defend Hovind can get a copy of the thesis and dispute the facts. Perhaps you don't have the time or funds to do it, but there a lot of organizations who would do it if there were anything to be gained.

the other source of information on Hovind's credibility and character is AIG. Their presentation is also clear and to the point. Unless you have facts to prove them liars, I suggest you read what they have to say.

As you might have noticed, I have little patience with people who misquote and misrepresent other people's work. Prove to me that AIG is distorting the truth or lying, and I will gladly apologise. Prove to me that the analysis of Hovind's thesis is factually untrue and I will apologise.

Not only will I apologise, but I will attempt to get these people to correct themselves, and I will point them out as unreliable in future threads.

[js1138]

So you are saying you can't get a tan, or that your blisters never turn to calluses?

These genetic bits of information are turned off until they are triggered by the enviroment i.e. vacations, shoveling tent posts on the ranch without gloves...

In the absense of disrupters you have come up with an actual claim that can be debated. I assume that this is a subset of the argument that all observed variation is built in to the gene pool and no new genes occur. I do not have the expertise to debate this in detail, so I invite others to join in.

A few questions, though. Are you saying that the variations that occur in a bacteria colony started from a single cell are not really changes in the genes? Are you saying that mutations never occur? What about children born with chromosome counts that differ from their parents?

[ApesForEvolution]

Evotards and evoliars. Why mince words when these do just fine?

I shall wear my 'ignore list' badge with honor, trust me.

Evotards are the most ignorant group I've ever seen and evoliars are the most intellectually dishonest.

[CyberCowboy777]

I must say your position has been greatly fortified with the new defense procedures, name calling and the implication of stupidity of your opponent. Bravo.

Gathering data is a process within the method and the method has an intended completion period. You do not gather data using the method, but within the method.

Macro Evolution theories have not completed the method, they are within the method. It is a theory with data holes and differences in hypothesis, all in process. While many may accept one or more hypothesis as a working theory it has not completed the method and other theories should be embraced as part of the whole discovery process.

scientific method: The principles and empirical processes of discovery and demonstration considered characteristic of or necessary for scientific investigation, generally involving the observation of phenomena, the formulation of a hypothesis concerning the phenomena, experimentation to demonstrate the truth or falseness of the hypothesis and a conclusion that validates or modifies the hypothesis.

Verifiable or provable by means of observation or experiment: empirical laws

[whattajoke]

Dude, you need to get more creative to get a rise out of us "evotards." the most response you'll get to your little missive is (aside from this post) a rolling of the eyes.

Love,

Your friendly neighborhood Evoliar

[ApesForEvolution]

So, which is it? Are you an evotard OR an evoliar.

Again, definitions:

Evotard: A promoter of the Big Evolie that doesn't even know why they support the Big Evolie. (Ignorant)

Evoliar: A promoter of the Big Evolie that is conscious of the facts (that there is no evidence or compelling logic to support the Big Evolie) and yet promotes them anyway. (Intellectually dishonest)

[RadioAstronomer]

Interesting choices you offer.

How about a more honest one: Acceptance of the mountains of evidence from many different disciplines supporting the best model we have to date called the theory of evolution.

[longshadow]

"Please don't feed the trolls!" placemarker

[RightWingNilla]

The genetic codes were always there.

So if I understand you correctly...

You feel all of the genes which give rise to diversity within the species were all present from the very beginning. Just that some populations have an overrepresantation of certain of these genes.

You agree the basis for diversity is at the level of the gene?

[RightWingNilla]

I just suggested that he might want to check out Dr. Dino more thoroughly before using him as a reference.

Come on, Patriot university is an up and coming instituition of higher learning. I hear they are expanding by adding another bathroom to the split level.

Yet, I would hate the idea of having to constantly revise my dissertation...I guess technically that means you can never graduate.

[f.Christian]

Maybe your dissertation -- cosmology is going to be cancelled !

Shock (( soon )) -- revelations (( designed universe )) ... awe --- you haven't seen anything - yet !

[RightWingNilla]

These genetic bits of information are turned off until they are triggered by the enviroment i.e. vacations, shoveling tent posts on the ranch without gloves...

These aren't heritable changes. Not only that but these biological responses do not involve any actual rearrangement of your DNA.

Evolution deals with adaptation via heritable genetic material.

[RightWingNilla]

you haven't seen anything - yet !

b-b-b-baby you just ain't seen nothin' yet!

Good song.

[RadioAstronomer]

Come on, Patriot university is an up and coming instituition of higher learning.

Should I apply as a prof there? hehe!

[VadeRetro]

Now you've done it!

I say any love is good love,
So I took what I could get!
When she looked at me with those big brown eyes
And said, "You ain't seen nothin' yet!"

[f.Christian]

Bachman Turner Overdrive, "You ain't seen nothing yet"
Album: (unknown album)


I met a clever woman
She took my heart away
She said I had it coming to me
But I wanted it that day

I think that any love is good lovin
‘So i took what I could get mm mm ooh ooh
She looked at me with those big brown eyes
And said

CHORUS You ain’t seen nothin’yet b b b baby
You ain’t seen nothing yet
Here’s something that you’re never gonna forget
B b b baby you ain’t seen it you ain’t been around

And now I’m feeling better
`Cos I was coming down for sure
She took me to her Doctor
And he told me I was cured
He said that any love was good love
So I took what I could get
And then she looked at me with those big brown eyes
And said

CHORUS

Any love is a good lovin
So I took what I could get,
I took waht I could get
And then she looked at me with that big brown eyes
And said
You ain’t seen nothin’yet,
Baby, you ain’t seen nothin’yet,
Here’s something, here’s something,
Here’s something you ain’t gonna forget
You ain’t seen nothin’yet,

[f.Christian]

I met a devil woman.
She took my heart away.
She said I had it coming to me.
but I wanted it that way.

I think that any lovin's good lovin.
So I took what I could get.
She looked at me with her big brown eyes and said.

you ain't seen nothing yet....b.b.b.baby you just aint seen nothin yet
its somethin your just never gonna forget,
b.b.b.b. baby you just aint seen n.n. nothing yet

And now I'm feeling better.
Cause I found out for sure.
She took me to her doctor.
And he told me I was cured.

He said that any love is good love
so i took what i could get,
She looked at me with her big brown eyes and said

you ain't seen nothing yet....b.b.b.baby you just ain't seen nothin yet
it's something
its something your never gonna forget,
you know
you know
you know you just ain't seen n.n. nothin yet

any lovin is good lovin
so i took what i could get,
she looked at my with her big brown eyes and said

you aint seen nothin yet
b.b.b. baby you just aint seen n.n. othing yet
its somethin
its somethin
its somethin your never gonna forget
baby baby you just aint seen nothing yet

you aint seen nothing yet (repeat until fade)

[longshadow]

Should I apply as a prof there? hehe!

Lose half your brains and all of your ethics and you'll be qualified....

[RadioAstronomer]

Lose half your brains and all of your ethics and you'll be qualified....

You insult me sir! only half my brain? Sheesh 90% is what I was thinking.

[Lysander]

Again, okay, but the school district is still correct to make sure the kids understand it is ONLY a theory.

It is obvious the school system never taught you what a theory is. That is the whole problem. Light waves are "only theory" but the theory is sound for use in prediction and control. So for Evolution and not for ID.