Genetic Changes In Mice 'Question Evolution Speed'

Ananova ^ | 5-21-2003

[blam]

Genetic changes in mice 'question evolution speed'

A species of mouse has evolved dramatically in just 150 years, showing genetic change can occur much faster than was thought possible.

The discovery was made by accident by two American biologists studying the genetic make-up of a common wild mouse in Chicago.

Dr Dennis Nyberg and Dr Oliver Pergams, both from the University of Illinois at Chicago, analysed DNA samples from 56 museum specimens of the white-footed mouse dating back to 1855, and 52 wild mice captured from local forests and parks.

They found startling genetic differences between the 19th century and modern mice.

Only one of the present-day mice had DNA that matched that of mice collected before 1950.

While fast evolutionary change has been seen in fruit flies, such rapid evolution in a mammal has not been reported before.

The scientists, whose findings appear in the journal Nature, believe humans may have been partly responsible for the "new" mice.

"Settlers may have brought in mice with the favourable gene that were able to out-compete mice with the native variant," said Dr Pergams.

Story filed: 18:18 Wednesday 21st May 2003

[js1138]

I found and posted on letter from Darwin to Gray in 1857. It doesn't contain the ALS quote and doesn't support any inference that Darwin disbelieved in his own theory.

Gray was an early advocate of ID. His views were pretty much identical to current IDers, except that he was pretty much converted by Darwin.

The quote from ALS, is as usual, out of context, and as such, a lie. I found this little jewel that covers the quote out of context from a Christian perspective:

ONE OF THE GREATEST SINS AMONGST CHRISTIANS

"One of the greatest sins in the Christian world of today, is DISSEMBLING and covetousness in dealing with God."    Counsels on Stewardship 309


DISSEMBLING:- "Assuming a false appearance; playing the hypocrite; giving an erroneous impression." - Dictionary

"Every man's work passes in review before God and is registered for faithfulness or unfaithfulness. Opposite each name in the Books of Heaven is entered with terrible exactness every wrong word, every selfish act, every unfulfilled duty, and every secret sin, with every artful dissembling. Heaven-sent warnings or reproofs neglected, wasted moments, unimproved opportunities, the influence exerted for good or for evil, with its far-reaching results, all are chronicled by the recording angel."    Great Controversy 482


WHAT DOES ARTFUL DISSEMBLING MEAN?

ARTFUL:    Exhibiting skill : Crafty

DISSEMBLING: From Dissemble = To hide under a false semblance : To disguise : To conceal : To mask : To give an erroneous impression : To assume a false appearance : To be hypocritical : To cover up; To deceive : To conceal a fact : To feign or pretend

[ALS]

"If it was honest discourse, that would be one thing, but to take a statement that was made over 100 years ago, and then try and use it to disprove modern evolution, is NOT honest discourse."

soooo.. Newton, etc etc. all lied because their claims exceed your new "100 years" limit?

According to you, we shouldn't read Darwin at all. Too much time has elapsed.


kids

[ALS]

"...I am quite conscious that my speculations run beyond the bounds of true science...It is a mere rag of an hypothesis with as many flaw[s] and holes as sound parts."
(Charles Darwin to Asa Gray, cited by Adrian Desmond and James Moore, Darwin, (New York: W.W. Norton and Company, 1991) p. 456, 475.)


go buy the book, lazy

[Aric2000]

Care to enlighten us on this?

Is there some unannounced SCIENTIFIC piece of evidence that you know about, but that we don't, or is this another of those.....

We have information that will blow evolution out of the water, but it never comes to light?

you talk a big talk Gargantua, let's see you walk it...

[VadeRetro]

I'd say "now who do,
Who do you think you're fooling?"

-- "Loves Me Like a Rock" (words and music by Paul Simon)

[ALS]

"so move on to the next please."

in your dreams bubber

here, chew on this:
"...I am quite conscious that my speculations run beyond the bounds of true science...It is a mere rag of an hypothesis with as many flaw[s] and holes as sound parts."
(Charles Darwin to Asa Gray, cited by Adrian Desmond and James Moore, Darwin, (New York: W.W. Norton and Company, 1991) p. 456, 475.)

[f.Christian]

Missing links ?

Syllables: gul-li-ble

Part of Speech adjective
Pronunciation guh lih bEl
Definition 1. readily believing and thus easily tricked or deceived.
Synonyms unsuspicious {suspicious (3)} , credulous (1)
Similar Words naive , susceptible , trustful , foolish , unsophisticated {sophisticated} , innocent , ingenuous , trusting

Related Words green * *

Derived Forms gullibility, n. ; gullibly, adv.

... * * ... young -- baby bird !

[Aric2000]

OMG, I can't believe that you just said that.

Talk about dishonesty, geex, if you actually believe what you just spouted, there is no way we will ever agree, because you don't think, you react.

Such ignorance is mindblowing to me, and very sad.

Oh well, can't say that we didn't try.

[ALS]

"OMG, I can't believe that you just said that.

Talk about dishonesty, geex, if you actually believe what you just spouted, there is no way we will ever agree, because you don't think, you react.

Such ignorance is mindblowing to me, and very sad.

Oh well, can't say that we didn't try."

yep, serious projectionist problem.

see a shrink OR fire the current one

[Aric2000]

I have chewed on it IDIOT, and I have explained why that statement MAY have applied then, but would NEVER come close to applying now.

That was then, this is NOW.....

You do know the difference between the past, and the present, right?

Or are you that delusional as well?

[ALS]

You've chewed on an idiot?

make sense bubber

[js1138]

go buy the book, lazy

Quite a putdown, coming from a person who doesn't know the meaning of the word "discredit", or the word "to".

[Junior]

Dude, he's trolling. He wants you to lose your cool. Everyone out there in lurker-land can see he hasn't actually ever presented a case, he's simply picking fights. Step back for a second and take a breath.

[VadeRetro]

In 959, you quote me as saying, "Here's where you have a problem. Between 1857 and now, the missing links have turned up."

What I actually said was, "Here's where you have a problem. Between 1857 and now, the missing links have turned up."

The underlined thingy is called a "hyperlink." Does this have anything to do with how fast and glib your reply was?

[Aric2000]

How about we just place you on virtual ignore then.

Because you are dishonest, uncaring about a proper debate, and disdane facts.

Such as the fact that the evidence that was missing in 1859 is now an actual part of the theory, and therefore the holes have been filled.

Such as the fact that the statement of 100 years ago, does not apply to the theory now.

But , no, that would take actual honesty on your part to admit, and destroy your argument in the process.

Nope, can't have that.

Good bye ALS, you ignorance and dishonesty have reached the breaking point again.

[ALS]

so i'm right?

cool

[f.Christian]

More evoloonery -- tautologists !

To: f.Christian

g3 ...

The central point of science is the discovery of causes and effects and materialist evolution denies it. It proposes random events as the engine of the transformation of species.


ag ...


You do realize, I hope, that you're claiming modern physics is also unscientific? Randomness is the basis of quantum mechanics, in essence. We've long since gotten past deterministic cause and effect - we now look at probability as the tool for measuring the physical world. Try again.

Drew Garrett


39 posted on 04/23/2003 3:52 PM PDT by agarrett

[js1138]

Time to take Junior's advice. There really isn't any there there. We are dealing with someone who can't cope with two letter words.

[ALS]

Are you saying your own words aren't good enough?