Posted on 04/22/2003 1:54:17 AM PDT by nickcarraway
The Archbishop of Canterbury, Dr Rowan Williams, has been forced to apologise to Britain's 330,000 Freemasons after he said that their beliefs were incompatible with Christianity and that he had rejected them from senior posts in his diocese.
Dr Williams has written to Robert Morrow, the Grand Secretary of the United Grand Lodge of England, in an attempt to defuse the row prompted by comments he made last year. In his letter, the Archbishop apologises for the "distress" he caused and discloses that his own father was a member of the Craft.
Freemasons, many of whom are active members of the Church of England, reacted angrily to his disclosure that he "had real misgivings about the compatibility of Masonry and Christian profession" and by his admission that, as Bishop of Monmouth, he had blocked the appointment of Freemasons to senior appointments.
His comments about Freemasons were in a private letter leaked to the media shortly after Downing Street confirmed his appointment as head of the Church of England.
Subsequent attempts by his advisers to defuse the row only caused further offence. A spokesman said the Archbishop was worried about the ritual element of Freemasonry, which has been seen as "satanically inspired".
In his letter of apology, Dr Williams tries to distance himself from his own reported comments. He claims that his views were never meant to be public and were distorted by the media.
He wrote: "I have been sorry to learn of the distress of a considerable number of Freemasons . . . In replying to private correspondence, I had no intention of starting a public debate nor of questioning the good faith and generosity of individual Freemasons and I regret the tone and content of the media coverage."
He added: "The quoted statements about the 'satanic' character of the Masonic ceremonies and other matters did not come from me and do not represent my judgment. Since my late father was a member of the Craft for many years, I have had every opportunity of observing the probity of individual members."
Dr Williams does not, in his letter, deny that he has misgivings about the role of Freemasons within the Church.
He wrote: "Where anxieties exist, however, they are in relation not to Freemasonry but to Christian ministers subscribing to what could be and often is understood [or misunderstood] as a private system of profession and initiation, involving the taking of oaths of loyalty."
He ends his letter by stating that Freemasons' commitment to charity and the community is beyond question.
Thank you, however, for your suggestions. Indeed, I do stay away from Freemasonry, but I would like to be appropriately informed. My skepticism comes from reading several books and talking with family and friends. I was intrigued by the assertion that these may not be the best resources. I'd really like to get a recommendation from a Freemason on what they consider to be the correct relation to Christianity. My relatives still currently involved are always circumspect. Surely there must be some Freemason certified answer to the challenges from Christians.
Lets just leave it at this, and you can take your parting shot at me if you like, but quite honestly I don't give much of a rats ass what you believe or who you are afraid of,Well, apparently you do, as you’ve responded to me several times, including this one. Strange conduct for someone who doesn’t give a rat’s behind.
or wether I have provided enought proof to you,You haven’t provided any.
For quite honestly: I'm sorry, but I can't go on. You are the definition of stupidity. After this, you will not hear from me again. I have neither the time nor the desire left to deride your ignorant and half baked comments.LOL. The hallmark of the losing argument. After failing to provide any factual support for anything you have claimed, and after having tried and failed to change the subject a dozen or so times,
Call your opponent stupid!
Its really too bad you missed your calling in the Iraqi information ministry, but I believe Syria still has opening.
I wish you the best of luck in the emotional, and social struggles that seem to be placing such a demand on you.Thank you. I will pray for you as well.
patent +AMDG
The Craft, I think, refers to stonemasonry, but I would hope a Mason would explain that.
Funny you should bring this up. I am a 3rd generation member of the United Methodist Church and am pretty much resigned to the fact that I will no longer be attending and supporting that church - for several reasons:
1) The anti-war letter from Sharon A. Brown Christopher President of the Council of UM Bishops and the BISHOPS' RESOLUTION ON IRAQ (adopted Nov. 8, 2002) which affirms the letter calling for peace sent to the Church by the president of the Council of Bishops.
2) Bishop Sprague: Sprague in a Jan. 28, 2002, speech at United Methodist-related Iliff School of Theology in Denver and in his recent book, Affirmations of a Dissenter, published by Abingdon Press.
"In his address and book, Bishop Sprague appears to deny the apostolic, orthodox, and ecumenical Trinitarian understanding of Jesus as God in favor of a form of Unitarianism or ‘adoptionism’ that denies the virgin birth and full deity of Christ," Lambrecht said. "He denies the physical resurrection of Christ’s body. He maintains that Jesus Christ is not the only way to salvation and appears to deny the substitutionary atonement of Christ through his sacrificial death on the cross.
I'd really like to get a recommendation from a Freemason on what they consider to be the correct relation to Christianity.They consider it wholly compatible, at least publicly. I think most lower level Masons truly believe that. What they won’t do is open their rituals up to public scrutiny so that Christians can decide for themselves if they agree. They try to bring you in at the lower levels, where it is at least more harmless, and where you are less likely to object. If you rise to the higher levels, it is something different, IMHO.
patent +AMDG
The Masons were (and remain) a force for good.[limiting my comments to this country’s masonry] At many levels they are, as are many other faiths I find incompatible with Catholicism. What is so troubling, however, is their insistence that they are open and that there are no secrets, at the same time they refuse to provide the details of the oaths and Rites they perform.
patent +AMDG
The beastman is coming . He is making many announcements.Many are blind
...
After ... we worshipped Satan as we danced around a ring of burning Bibles. Then we went home, except for the World Domination Sub-Committee, who had a splinter meeting.
LOL! Love your sense of humor, and the vivid imagery.
We did something called "Chapter Church" where the Chapter as a whole went to church together. Sometimes it was Catholic Mass, sometimes a protestant service.
Not many of the brothers I knew, Catholic or otherwise, made a point of avoiding premarital sex. I wasn't privy to the innermost secrets of their bedroom life, but if I had to guess, I'd say they were indifferent to contraception.
However, I suspect the Church does not have a global position on fraternities. It would teach that drunken bashes are immoral, and that the oaths some of them take are immoral. However, not all fraternities do these things, so to simply say fraternities are bad would be simplistic.
Mine, and I'd bet most are the same, has guiding principals that stress service to the community and the University. We held soccer and softball tournaments to raise money for children with cancer. Some of the other ones did Food Drives and things like that. They all met with representatives of the University on a regular basis to discuss University projects which the Greek system could assist in furthering. All of them had secret rituals, and periodically engaged in "drunken bashes."
FWIW, our Faculty Advisor was the University Chaplain, a Roman Catholic priest, who was a wonderful man, and beloved by all. As I recall, he declined to go through the initiation ritual, a decision which was departed from the norm, but was accepted without comment.
FWIW, our Faculty Advisor was the University Chaplain, a Roman Catholic priest, who was a wonderful man, and beloved by all. As I recall, he declined to go through the initiation ritual, a decision which was departed from the norm, but was accepted without comment.I’m guessing he missed many of the drunken bashes as well, though with some priests that is far from certain. Anyway, this is my view. Our fraternity did a lot of social work as well, which the Church would encourage, but also had its drunken bashes and its oaths, which the Church would not. I am acquainted with fraternities that do things differently. Most college fraternity houses, of course, are devoted to drinking. There are others devoted to professional association, scholastics, that sort of thing.
patent +AMDG
He steered clear of the annual three-day-party, and most of the other smaller-scale parties throughout the year.
An unintended added bonus: Because everyone loved Father Pat, girls had a handy excuse to drop by the house...Girl Pledge to Sorority Sister: "I'm going to run over to the xxx House, Father Pat may be there."
He steered clear of the annual three-day-party, and most of the other smaller-scale parties throughout the year.Wait, I thought three days was smaller scale? Maybe my memory is a little foggy?
I regret that you feel that necessary. Although I can understand your feelings. I remain a Methodist but am not happy with what you have cited.
Best Regards, Axel
Have you ever been to a Masonic lodge meeting???
That has nothing to do with any of the questions asked of you here. You have been asked to explain the oaths and rites the Masons use in the formal ceremonies.
What happens at a lodge meeting is no more relevant to that, than what happens at coffee and donuts after Mass is to explaining what Catholicism is.
patent +AMDG
I don't have to ask to join, human beings being human beings, all the "secrets" of Masonry have long since been exposed for what it is, precisely what Pope Leo XIII said it was: Naturalism.
Here's a bit from the 32nd and 33rd degree oaths:
"Masonry will eventually rule the world."
"and prayers are recited for the universal dominion of the true principles of Masonry."
Both quotes from "Christianity and Freemasonry" by William Whalen, page 79.
"Masonry will eventually rule the world", where did Whalen get this stuff? Maybe Whalen would come closer writing the truth if he stuck to writing about the various and numerous scandals in the Catholic church.
He might start with Pius XII, then cover the scandal with gay priests and child molestation, then he might move on to the Vatican Bank scandals of a few years ago. The Murder of John Paul I, the Spanish Inquisition, take your pick, this church is full of sordid and seedy areas in which to study.
I advise anyone in the Masons to get out, I pray for them to leave the Masons because it is a religion, contrary to that of Christianity.
I ask you again, have you ever been to a Masonic Lodge meeting? If you had ever been to a Masonic Lodge meeting you would know that your last statement is patently false.
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