Calvinism debate must be balanced

Baptist Standard ^ | A. J. Conyers

[Zechariah11]

But you do need to feel a Godly sorrow for the bad things you have done, enough to know they were wrong, enough to forsake them for the rest of your life.

. I'm sorry but I don't see that with the salvation accounts in Acts.

"Forsake sins?" You made a vow to forsake sinning?
Haven't sinned since salvation? Then don't make a vow. like that.. That's ridiculous. Mental attitude sins (eg. worry, anxiety , envy) can/will/do occur on a daily basis, (especially when paying bills).

Let the Holy Spirit be your guide as to the degree of repentance that is necessary.

Sounds pious, sounds good. But it is not a very objective barometer, is it? ."

you will have the sense that the Lord has forgiven you, and when you are able to forgive yourself, you will feel a great burden lifted.

Excuse me, this sounds a bit like Psych 101 now. Who said I could not forgive myself????

. We are a feelings oriented society aren't we? If it isn't the Pentecostals trying to get us in a worked up into a high emotional state "to get the baptism", it is another camp trying to make us weep and feel miserable in order to get salvation.

Jesus used this as an evangelistic message: Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved.

[CARepubGal]

Interesting how Mormons like WM spin the Gospel and the Godhead for that matter into a do it all yourself project. Their Christ is an afterthought. Really sad to see that.

[CARepubGal]

Don't you have to do some Home Teaching or Tithing Settlement tonight WM?

Note: Tithing in the Mormon church is not a private matter between the person and their God but a matter for the man, family, bishopric and by extension the ward and up the ladder to the SLC HQ. And the yearly interviews do ask whether one is a full tithepayer (with any needed assistance contingent upon the Mormon's payment to the coffers). And Note: My session would NEVER EVER ask about my payments, they asked about my salvation when I voluntarially went to them for a membership interview. The question would be "What can we pray about for you" rather than "What can we gossip to the wives about" as was the case in Mormonism (despite my utterly appallingly boring existence) ;-)

[Elsie]

At the other end of the spectrum is a movement known as Arminianism. People often ask, "Are you a Calvinist or an Arminian?" The answer is, "Neither!"

I reject both Calvinism and Arminianism because the Bible rejects them. They are systems of theology, but they are not biblical.

Are there some truths in them? Yes. But we must take the Bible at face value. Simple as they may be, we need to be sincere enough to accept plain Bible truths.

All I can say is....

AMEN!

[Elsie]

......some Presbyterians in Hell.....

..hoping that their name will appear on a Mormon list someday for the Temple ceremony of 'Baptism for the Dead'.

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;^)

[Elsie]

THIS has been totally ignored over on THIS thread....

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/1044339/posts?q=1&&page=739

[White Mountain]

The Saints post, and the false accusations come out of the woodwork, preceded by the efforts to blame any disruption on the non-disruptor.

But it was better this time.

Rush Limbaugh and I, we are just harmless little fuzzballs, as anyone can see from looking at my previous posts. Any attempt to imply otherwise is just more false witness.

[White Mountain]

Your #101: But it is not a very objective barometer, is it?

The objective barometer would be using your Scripture study to measure your daily walk.

[White Mountain]

Your #101: I'm sorry but I don't see that with the salvation accounts in Acts.

1 Corinthians 15:9 For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.

At the time he was persecuting, he thought he was doing God service!

You don't think Paul had a Godly sorrow for what he did? But when he repented, forsook his persecutions, and God forgave him, and he knew that by the witness of the Holy Spirit, it didn't sting anymore.

On the other hand, do you think that if Paul had continued persecuting Christians after he had seen the Lord, there would have been any forgiveness for him?

Or worse, suppose he professed a belief in Christ, got everyone to assume he was saved, and continued to persecute faithful Christians (as some do right here on this forum). Can you spell h-y-p-o-c-r-i-s-y?

See how tangled things can get when the mind is divorced from the heart, and when the thoughts in the head are divorced from a righteous daily walk and the things Jesus taught?

[A.J.Armitage]

They seem strangely uninterested, don't they?

[A.J.Armitage]

Or worse, suppose he professed a belief in Christ, got everyone to assume he was saved, and continued to persecute faithful Christians (as some do right here on this forum).

Really now? Is calling your religion false persecution? Is pointing out how sub-Biblical your religion is persecution? Is quoting a false prophesy by Joe Smith persecution? Define persecution.

And tell me if you think persecution should be legal.

[White Mountain]

Post #109 continued:

2 Corinthians 7:9-10
9 Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing.
10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

Book of Mormon, Alma 42:27-30
27 Therefore, O my son, whosoever will come may come and partake of the waters of life freely; and whosoever will not come the same is not compelled to come; but in the last day it shall be restored unto him according to his deeds.
28 If he has desired to do evil, and has not repented in his days, behold, evil shall be done unto him, according to the restoration of God.
29 And now, my son, I desire that ye should let these things trouble you no more, and only let your sins trouble you, with that trouble which shall bring you down unto repentance.
30 O my son, I desire that ye should deny the justice of God no more. Do not endeavor to excuse yourself in the least point because of your sins, by denying the justice of God; but do you let the justice of God, and his mercy, and his long-suffering have full sway in your heart; and let it bring you down to the dust in humility.

The Book of Mormon has an account of a Paul-like conversion, which happened to an unrighteous son of the righteous leader of the Lord's Church among the Nephites, and to four unrighteous sons of their righteous king. Before their conversion, they were the very vilest of sinners. Here is part of the account:

Alma 36:16-21 (about 73 BC)
16 And now, for three days and for three nights was I racked, even with the pains of a damned soul.
17 And it came to pass that as I was thus racked with torment, while I was harrowed up by the memory of my many sins, behold, I remembered also to have heard my father prophesy unto the people concerning the coming of one Jesus Christ, a Son of God, to atone for the sins of the world.
18 Now, as my mind caught hold upon this thought, I cried within my heart: O Jesus, thou Son of God, have mercy on me, who am in the gall of bitterness, and am encircled about by the everlasting chains of death.
19 And now, behold, when I thought this, I could remember my pains no more; yea, I was harrowed up by the memory of my sins no more.
20 And oh, what joy, and what marvelous light I did behold; yea, my soul was filled with joy as exceeding as was my pain!
21 Yea, I say unto you, my son, that there could be nothing so exquisite and so bitter as were my pains. Yea, and again I say unto you, my son, that on the other hand, there can be nothing so exquisite and sweet as was my joy.

[White Mountain]

Post #111:

I would ask the poster to describe for us how a large group of anti-Christians could persecute a small group of faithful Christians on an online forum. Include false witness, misrepresentation, motive-bashing, hounding, stalking, harassment, pinging the swarm to wherever they post, "you can't post here", "you can't post anywhere without harassment", etc.

Make it sound convincing. Then change "anti-Christians" to "wolves in sheep's clothing professing to be Christians but not doing as Jesus taught", whose hypocrisy is all too evident.

Matthew 5:9-12
9 Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness’ sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.

[A.J.Armitage]

If you would ask me something, address me directly.

Not, of course, that you ever addressed what I said. You merely slandered us. (Like the natural man you are.) But it's clear you think Christians are persecuting you by disputing your heresies.

Now answer a simple question: Do you think persecution should be legal?

[White Mountain]

Post #114: You merely slandered us. ... your heresies.

More false accusation. Constant (unsuccessful) attempts to put us on trial and keep us that way, regardless of our replies. That is how the natural-man "game" is played. (Add that to the list in my #113.)

Since it is going to keep happening (until they repent), it is better for the harangues and the flames and the bashing and the baiting of the Calvinists to spam a Calvinism thread.

Why should I bother responding to such posts? Just feeds the persecution. Much better to address this post to "All" if I do respond.

I exhort the poster: Forsake all unrighteousness, come unto Christ, be born again, and let God give you a new heart!

[A.J.Armitage]

Why should I bother responding to such posts? Just feeds the persecution. Much better to address this post to "All" if I do respond.

You are responding. You just feel averse to even leaving the screen names of saints in the "To:" screen.

I see yet again that you call my replies persecution. Yet again you refuse to answer.

Do you believe that persecution as you define it should be legal?

[Elsie]

(The TarBaby Defense.......)

[Elsie]

INTRODUCTION

The Book of Mormon is a volume of holy scripture comparable to the Bible. It is a record of God’s dealings with the ancient inhabitants of the Americas and contains, as does the Bible, the fulness of the everlasting gospel.
The book was written by many ancient prophets by the spirit of prophecy and revelation. Their words, written on gold plates, were quoted and abridged by a prophet-historian named Mormon. The record gives an account of two great civilizations. One came from Jerusalem in 600 B.C., and afterward separated into two nations, known as the Nephites and the Lamanites. The other came much earlier when the Lord confounded the tongues at the Tower of Babel. This group is known as the Jaredites. After thousands of years, all were destroyed except the Lamanites, and they are the principal ancestors of the American Indians.

The crowning event recorded in the Book of Mormon is the personal ministry of the Lord Jesus Christ among the Nephites soon after his resurrection. It puts forth the doctrines of the gospel, outlines the plan of salvation, and tells men what they must do to gain peace in this life and eternal salvation in the life to come.

After Mormon completed his writings, he delivered the account to his son Moroni, who added a few words of his own and hid up the plates in the hill Cumorah. On September 21, 1823, the same Moroni, then a glorified, resurrected being, appeared to the Prophet Joseph Smith and instructed him relative to the ancient record and its destined translation into the English language.

In due course the plates were delivered to Joseph Smith, who translated them by the gift and power of God. The record is now published in many languages as a new and additional witness that Jesus Christ is the Son of the living God and that all who will come unto him and obey the laws and ordinances of his gospel may be saved.

Concerning this record the Prophet Joseph Smith said: "I told the brethren that the Book of Mormon was the most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding by its precepts, than by any other book."

 

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THIRD NEPHI
THE BOOK OF NEPHI
THE SON OF NEPHI, WHO WAS THE SON OF HELAMAN

CHAPTER 28

Nine of the Twelve desire and are promised an inheritance in Christ’s kingdom when they die--The Three Nephites desire and are given power over death so as to remain on the earth until Jesus comes again--They are translated and see things not lawful to utter, and they are now ministering among men. [Between A.D. 34 and 35]

 AND it came to pass when Jesus had said these words, he spake unto his disciples, one by one, saying unto them: What is it that ye desire of me, after that I am gone to the Father?

 And they all spake, save it were three, saying: We desire that after we have lived unto the age of man, that our ministry, wherein thou hast called us, may have an end, that we may speedily come unto thee in thy kingdom.

 And he said unto them: Blessed are ye because ye desired this thing of me; therefore, after that ye are seventy and two years old ye shall come unto me in my kingdom; and with me ye shall find rest.

 And when he had spoken unto them, he turned himself unto the three, and said unto them: What will ye that I should do unto you, when I am gone unto the Father?

 And they sorrowed in their hearts, for they durst not speak unto him the thing which they desired.

 And he said unto them: Behold, I know your thoughts, and ye have desired the thing which John, my beloved, who was with me in my ministry, before that I was lifted up by the Jews, desired of me.

 Therefore, more blessed are ye, for ye shall never taste of death; but ye shall live to behold all the doings of the Father unto the children of men, even until all things shall be fulfilled according to the will of the Father, when I shall come in my glory with the powers of heaven.

 And ye shall never endure the pains of death; but when I shall come in my glory ye shall be changed in the twinkling of an eye from mortality to immortality; and then shall ye be blessed in the kingdom of my Father.

 And again, ye shall not have pain while ye shall dwell in the flesh, neither sorrow save it be for the sins of the world; and all this will I do because of the thing which ye have desired of me, for ye have desired that ye might bring the souls of men unto me, while the world shall stand.

 And for this cause ye shall have fulness of joy; and ye shall sit down in the kingdom of my Father; yea, your joy shall be full, even as the Father hath given me fulness of joy; and ye shall be even as I am, and I am even as the Father; and the Father and I are one;

 And the Holy Ghost beareth record of the Father and me; and the Father giveth the Holy Ghost unto the children of men, because of me.

 And it came to pass that when Jesus had spoken these words, he touched every one of them with his finger save it were the three who were to tarry, and then he departed.

 And behold, the heavens were opened, and they were caught up into heaven, and saw and heard unspeakable things.

 And it was forbidden them that they should utter; neither was it given unto them power that they could utter the things which they saw and heard;

 And whether they were in the body or out of the body, they could not tell; for it did seem unto them like a transfiguration of them, that they were changed from this body of flesh into an immortal state, that they could behold the things of God.

 But it came to pass that they did again minister upon the face of the earth; nevertheless they did not minister of the things which they had heard and seen, because of the commandment which was given them in heaven.

 And now, whether they were mortal or immortal, from the day of their transfiguration, I know not;

 But this much I know, according to the record which hath been given--they did go forth upon the face of the land, and did minister unto all the people, uniting as many to the church as would believe in their preaching; baptizing them, and as many as were baptized did receive the Holy Ghost.

 And they were cast into prison by them who did not belong to the church. And the prisons could not hold them, for they were rent in twain.

 And they were cast down into the earth; but they did smite the earth with the word of God, insomuch that by his power they were delivered out of the depths of the earth; and therefore they could not dig pits sufficient to hold them.

 And thrice they were cast into a furnace and received no harm.

 And twice were they cast into a den of wild beasts; and behold they did play with the beasts as a child with a suckling lamb, and received no harm.

 And it came to pass that thus they did go forth among all the people of Nephi, and did preach the gospel of Christ unto all people upon the face of the land; and they were converted unto the Lord, and were united unto the church of Christ, and thus the people of that generation were blessed, according to the word of Jesus.

 And now I, Mormon, make an end of speaking concerning these things for a time.

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Matthew 16:16-18
 16.  And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
 17.  And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
 18.  And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.  (except in Latin America)

[Elsie]

HMmm...

for some reason the VERSE numbers did not copy: 1 thru 24

????

[Gamecock]

LOL!