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To: balrog666
How times have I post "the Theory of Evolution" on this thread and how many times have I post "the fact of evolution"?

I take that as "evolution is a theory". Now either dig up Steve Gould and argue with him or argue with Talk-origins.

Evolution is a Fact and a Theory

Well evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape-like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered.

Moreover, "fact" doesn't mean "absolute certainty"; there ain't no such animal in an exciting and complex world. The final proofs of logic and mathematics flow deductively from stated premises and achieve certainty only because they are not about the empirical world. Evolutionists make no claim for perpetual truth, though creationists often do (and then attack us falsely for a style of argument that they themselves favor). In science "fact" can only mean "confirmed to such a degree that it would be perverse to withhold provisional consent." I suppose that apples might start to rise tomorrow, but the possibility does not merit equal time in physics classrooms.

Evolutionists have been very clear about this distinction of fact and theory from the very beginning, if only because we have always acknowledged how far we are from completely understanding the mechanisms (theory) by which evolution (fact) occurred. Darwin continually emphasized the difference between his two great and separate accomplishments: establishing the fact of evolution, and proposing a theory--natural selection--to explain the mechanism of evolution.

- Stephen J. Gould, " Evolution as Fact and Theory"; Discover, May 1981


790 posted on 03/17/2003 7:36:45 PM PST by AndrewC
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To: AndrewC
I take that as "evolution is a theory". Now either dig up Steve Gould and argue with him or argue with Talk-origins.

Well, evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data.

Note that your very link preemptively dismisses using "Evolution is a fact" and "Evolution is a theory" to prove "theory = fact."

Well, evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data.
"Preemptively," except that it didn't stop you. A theory may be named after a fact.
843 posted on 03/18/2003 8:47:46 AM PST by VadeRetro (Theory is not fact. "Twist and Shout" is not science.)
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To: AndrewC
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/evolution-fact.html


This is an excellent article and a neat quote. I would say, however, that it backs up nicely what balrog, Vade, Junior, PH, and myself have been saying for a while now. You seemed to imply that it supports your position. Please clarify.
865 posted on 03/18/2003 10:57:07 AM PST by gomaaa
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