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Professor Dumped Over Evolution Beliefs
http://headlines.agapepress.org/archive/3/112003a.asp ^ | March 11, 2003 | Jim Brown and Ed Vitagliano

Posted on 03/11/2003 3:01:59 PM PST by Remedy

A university professor said she was asked to resign for introducing elite students to flaws in Darwinian thought, and she now says academic freedom at her school is just a charade.

During a recent honors forum at Mississippi University for Women (MUW), Dr. Nancy Bryson gave a presentation titled "Critical Thinking on Evolution" -- which covered alternate views to evolution such as intelligent design. Bryson said that following the presentation, a senior professor of biology told her she was unqualified and not a professional biologist, and said her presentation was "religion masquerading as science."

The next day, Vice President of Academic Affairs, Dr. Vagn Hansen asked Bryson to resign from her position as head of the school's Division of Science and Mathematics.

"The academy is all about free thought and academic freedom. He hadn't even heard my talk," Bryson told American Family Radio News. "[W]ithout knowing anything about my talk, he makes that decision. I think it's just really an outrage."

Bryson believes she was punished for challenging evolutionary thought and said she hopes her dismissal will smooth the way for more campus debate on the theory of evolution. University counsel Perry Sansing said MUW will not comment on why Bryson was asked to resign because it is a personnel matter.

"The best reaction," Bryson says, "and the most encouraging reaction I have received has been from the students." She added that the students who have heard the talk, "They have been so enthusiastically supportive of me."

Bryson has contacted the American Family Association Center for Law and Policy and is considering taking legal action against the school.


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KEYWORDS: academialist
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To: Right Wing Professor
Andrew, a sequence of 263 amino acids is one termination or initiation codon different from a sequence of 194. I know very little about S4, but I'm willing to bet the extra amino acids, in species where they're present, are deleted in post-translation processing.

That may be so, but then the whole sequence might be considered an intron.

721 posted on 03/17/2003 7:44:00 AM PST by AndrewC
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To: AndrewC
Agreed
722 posted on 03/17/2003 7:44:42 AM PST by Right Wing Professor
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To: gore3000
They way andrewc has been gathering these numbers is the same way that evolutionists in numerous articles have been SELECTIVELY gathering numbers to support evolution - by using the blast program on particular genes of different species. So if this method is wrong then you must also state that the evidence put out by evolutionists is false.

Andrew C has been examining the raw data in a highly technical field, and in terms of counting genomic changes was doing better than I was. There is nothing wrong with what he's been doing; it just so happens that one of the two human (and ape) proteins he's been looking at is on the y chromosome. Even you, surely, must appreciate that a functional gene for the most fundamental part of the protein synthetic apparatus cannot be on the y chromosome, since women make proteins the same way men do.

723 posted on 03/17/2003 8:46:23 AM PST by Right Wing Professor
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To: gore3000
Clearly, if species can go on for hundreds of millions of years without a single mutation evolution must be false.

No, it just means that on a structure like the ribosome, which is responsible for the synthesis of almost every protein the cell makes, a single mutation has enormous impact, and so the protein is very highly conserved. In contrast, a protein like alcohol dehydrogenase, which in some cases is responsible for the oxidation of a wide variety of alcohol substrates, can undergo mutations which change its specificity without global effects on the organism - particularly if you have multiple copies of the gene.

Essential, universal proteins tend to be highly conserved. Proteins which code for, say, detoxification of external toxins evolve rapidly, as the environment changes.

724 posted on 03/17/2003 8:55:16 AM PST by Right Wing Professor
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To: gore3000
Frogs are supposedly amongst the first terrestrial animals.

No, they weren't. I originally wasn't going to pick on you about this point, but the more research I did I realized it was kind of important. Here's a quick little link about it.

http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/vertebrates/tetrapods/amphibfr.html

and a more detailed link about amphibian/reptile evolution.

http://www.myherp.com/articles/other/evolution.htm

Frogs as we know them were not around when the amphibian-reptile transition occured. They have survived, in one form or another, for millions of years since then.

Your position is characteristic of a VERY common misconception about the way evolution works. New species do not completely replace old species unless there is direct competition between them. Amphibians occupied a specific niche in the ancient ecosystem. They could move about on land and thus avoid competition from fish and other water-based organisms. Reptiles had traits that made them even less dependent on water and thus could occupy a NEW niche in the ecosystem. They DID NOT replace amphibians. They didn't have to. Reptiles could entirely avoid places where amphibians ruled. That's why the traits that define reptiles were such an advantage: scales, shelled eggs, better skeletons. Amphibians were perfectly capable of competing with speicies of fish and occupied a new enviornment from them. Reptiles occupied still another enviornment. The Nautulis(sp?) has existed relatively unchanged since it occupies a perfectly suitable little enviornmental niche all its own and nothing better has come along that directly competes with it enough to force into extinction. Reptiles did not "replace" amphibians.

Back to your point about frogs not changing. Individual speices of frogs, and there are oodles, are widely varied and have changed drastically since the first frog-like ancestor species evolved. The basic "frog format" however, is well-adapted to the conditions these species tend to occupy. Hence it is superior to other speices that might have tried to compete with it and has not died out.

There are no contradictions in the theory of evolution. What you are discussing here is a very common misconception about how evolution works. You're right! The position you're arguing against here doesn't make sense and is, in fact, not the way the system works.

725 posted on 03/17/2003 9:13:24 AM PST by gomaaa
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To: PatrickHenry
blue flatulence placemarker
726 posted on 03/17/2003 9:42:09 AM PST by longshadow
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To: longshadow
Bypassing the bozos placemarker.
727 posted on 03/17/2003 9:45:11 AM PST by balrog666 (When in doubt, tell the truth. - Mark Twain)
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To: VadeRetro; f.Christian; AndrewC; Dataman
Vade,

If the miserable few examples of avian evolution that you provided, are all you personally need to believe that avian evolution is fact, then I doubt you really want to discuss science.

Regards,
Boiler Plate

728 posted on 03/17/2003 12:08:47 PM PST by Boiler Plate
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To: Boiler Plate
You mean if I just bring you more broomsticks? Do you believe this yourself?
729 posted on 03/17/2003 12:12:50 PM PST by VadeRetro
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To: Boiler Plate
I notice that 728 is your strike two at an answer to why you're telling people that a fact in science is a theory which has been proved.
730 posted on 03/17/2003 12:14:33 PM PST by VadeRetro (Proved by what, I wonder?)
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To: ThinkPlease; f.Christian; AndrewC; Dataman; Con X-Poser
The preponderance of the evidence shows that: The universe is roughly 13-15 billion years old. The universe formed from what can be described in two words to be a "Big Bang", though the event is more complex than that. The Earth is 4.5 billion years old, formed from the solar proto-nebula, likely triggered by a nearby supernova remnant or spiral density wave. Life on this earth formed through a process of Abiogenesis. All life on this Earth is descended from that group of molecules that began replicating so long ago. Life forms have mutated and changed through some method of evolution, likely a blend of the processes of Punctuated Equilibrium and Gradualism. There is no evidence for any intelligent "meddling" in the process of evolution by any sentient beings, except in the cases where humans have created new species. These statements are not immutable, and can be changed by a preponderance of the evidence in the favor of a new model, provided it explains the behavior of the world better than any of the old models listed above. So how about you? Have any statements you'd like to stand by at this time?

Please Think

Just to make sure before I reply, do you honestly believe the above statements to be fact and that you aren't being satirical? I don't want to put words into your mouth.

Regards,
Boiler Plate

731 posted on 03/17/2003 12:18:00 PM PST by Boiler Plate
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To: Boiler Plate
Just to make sure before I reply, do you honestly believe the above statements to be fact and that you aren't being satirical?

A repeat of my previous point: How can you realistically discuss science when you don't seem to understand the difference between scientific facts, scientific theories, scientific hypotheses, and just plain BS?

732 posted on 03/17/2003 12:44:07 PM PST by balrog666 (When in doubt, tell the truth. - Mark Twain)
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To: balrog666
Fact-theory placemarker.
733 posted on 03/17/2003 1:12:41 PM PST by Lurking Libertarian (Non sub homine, sed sub Deo et lege)
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To: Right Wing Professor
not smear by association.... foundation.
734 posted on 03/17/2003 1:40:54 PM PST by Robert_Paulson2 (What price treason?)
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To: Boiler Plate; ThinkPlease
Just to make sure before I reply, do you honestly believe the above statements to be fact and that you aren't being satirical? I don't want to put words into your mouth. [you; to ThinkPlease; emphasis added]

Quoting from "ThinkPlease", which you included in your reply to him:

The preponderance of the evidence shows that: ..... [snip]. These statements are not immutable, and can be changed by a preponderance of the evidence in the favor of a new model, provided it explains the behavior of the world better than any of the old models listed above.

Far be it for me to speak for "ThinkPlease" but which words in the phrases "a preponderance of evidence" and "These statements are not immutable....." do you not understand?

735 posted on 03/17/2003 1:51:12 PM PST by longshadow
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To: Boiler Plate
Please Think: Life on this earth formed through a process of Abiogenesis.

So that's what abiogenesis is, a process! I always thought it was a fairy tale. I wonder what kind of process? Why would it be a process and not an event? If it is a process, it is the process of ceasing to think. If it is an event, it is a wish upon a falling star.

736 posted on 03/17/2003 1:52:26 PM PST by Dataman
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To: longshadow
Far be it for me to speak for "ThinkPlease" but which words in the phrases "a preponderance of evidence" and "These statements are not immutable....." do you not understand?

LS,

I just want to make absolutely sure, as this has been a problem before. Thanks for asking though.

Best Regards,
Boiler Plate

737 posted on 03/17/2003 2:28:19 PM PST by Boiler Plate
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To: longshadow
What part of "placemarker" do you not understand?
738 posted on 03/17/2003 2:28:27 PM PST by PatrickHenry (Felix, qui potuit rerum cognoscere causas.)
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To: PatrickHenry
A "circle is not an ellipse" placemarker.
739 posted on 03/17/2003 2:28:38 PM PST by Junior (Computers make very fast, very accurate mistakes.)
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To: balrog666
A repeat of my previous point: How can you realistically discuss science when you don't seem to understand the difference between scientific facts, scientific theories, scientific hypotheses, and just plain BS?

My point exactly, so why do you keep pretending like you know the difference?

Kindest Regards,
Boiler Plate

740 posted on 03/17/2003 2:31:38 PM PST by Boiler Plate
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