2 lawmakers spurn Muslim's prayer - Republicans step off House floor

Seattle Post-Intelligencer ^ | March 4, 2003 | ANGELA GALLOWAY

[sarcasm]

OLYMPIA -- He prayed for the politicians, the state's prosperity and peace for all ethnicities and religions.

But when a Muslim cleric offered the opening prayer before the state House of Representatives yesterday, at least two lawmakers stepped off the chamber floor.

"It's an issue of patriotism," Rep. Lois McMahan, a conservative Republican from Gig Harbor, said of her decision to stand in the back of the room.

"The Islamic religion is so . . . part and parcel with the attack on America. I just didn't want to be there, be a part of that," she said. "Even though the mainstream Islamic religion doesn't profess to hate America, nonetheless it spawns the groups that hate America."

Rep. Cary Condotta, a Republican from East Wenatchee, also left the floor. He said the timing was not a coincidence, but he declined to comment further on why he left, except to say he was talking to another lawmaker and "let's just say I wasn't particularly interested."

A prayer is given at the beginning of each Senate and House session, and attendance is hit or miss, particularly on Mondays.

The interfaith organization Associated Ministries of Thurston County schedules the daily chaplain, said Cynthia Zehnder, clerk of the 98-member chamber. They have selected clerics representing a broad range of faiths, she said.

Imam Mohamad Joban, of the Islamic Center of Olympia, presented yesterday's brief opening prayer.

In part, he said: "We open this session of House of Representatives in the name of Allah the one God Abraham, God of Moses, God of Jesus, and God of Mohammed, peace be upon them all. . . . We ask Allah or God to bless the state of Washington so it may continue to prosper and become a symbol of peace and tranquility for people of all ethnic and religious backgrounds. We pray that Allah may guide this House in making good decisions for the people of Washington.

"At this time, we also pray that America may succeed in the war against terrorism. We pray to God that the war may end with world peace and tranquility."

Joban said the walkout was not hurtful, but ignorant.

"They're unable to distinguish between Islam as religion and way of life, and bad Muslims," said Joban, who has also given the opening prayer to the Senate. "They are easily able to distinguish between Christianity and bad Christians.

"They need to understand that like (President) Bush said . . . Islam is a peaceful religion."

Kathy Erlandson, director of Associated Ministries of Thurston County, found the small walkout disappointing, but not surprising.

"It makes me embarrassed to know that some of our legislators can't even treat someone with that common respect," she said. "He's an American citizen and he's praying for their work, then how can it be an act of patriotism to walk away?"

McMahan said she does not oppose having a Muslim cleric deliver the prayer.

Her departure was not a protest, but a personal decision not to participate because "the religion is the focal point of the hate-America sentiment in the world."

"My god is not Mohammed," McMahan added.

Joban said that if he were invited to give the opening prayer, he would do it again.

"Even if half of them leave it's OK for me," Joban said. "As a Muslim we have to respect what people believe and . . . we have to forgive something because of ignorance.

"The Holy Quran says that (one should) always respond to bad action with good and those who used to be enemies become friends."

[newgeezer]

So you think that a Jewish legislator ought to be offended if the name of Jesus Christ is mentioned in prayer, and ought then to walk out, right?

He certainly has every right to do just that. And I have every right to resist any carnal urge to feel even the slightest of offense by it.

You see, I rest in the faith God gave me. If someone else chooses to reject the truth, I take no offense. He's not doing me any harm whatsoever.

[Ms. AntiFeminazi]

That's what jumped out at me too. The "or" says a whole lot, doesn't it?

[newgeezer]

There, you got it. SHUN CONFUSION!

[CyberAnt]

And ... the idiots complaining about the walkout, are the same ones who would walk out when a Christian says a prayer; but that's okay!!

[cerberus]

"Tolerance"? How much "tolerance" does it take to say one's own god is the god of one's own prophets? Islam recognizes all those named as prophets of Allah.

If you read the whole thing you will see that he uses the words God and Allah interchangeably, which they are. For example the following passage:

"We ask God to bless the state of Washington so it may continue to prosper and become a symbol of peace and tranquility for people of all ethnic and religious backgrounds. We pray that God may guide this House in making good decisions for the people of Washington. "

The irony for many of the posters on this thread is that you are embodying the very thing that you claim to despise i.e. fanatical irrationality.

We conservatives are better than that.

[nobdysfool]

Funny, it seems you're the only one who took offense. By your reasoning, no one with the courage of their own convictions should hold public office, because they might offend someone. Since when has offense become such a crime? Why is it that to offend someone is the moral equivalent of murder? That seems to be what you believe. Deal with the fact, and it IS a fact, that Allah is a false god. Your Muslim friends are MINO's. Read the Koran yourself, and see how Muslims are commanded to kill non-Muslims wherever they find them. Tolerance is fine when used correctly, but there has to be a point where your own convictions cause you to draw the line. That's not being intolerant, that's having the courage of your convictions. It is no courage when everyone feels as you do. The courage comes when you are the one who stands apart from the crowd, because of your convictions. The people in question neither embarrassed themselves, or their party when they stood up for what they felt was right.

You're very wrong and confused about this.

[EternalVigilance]

So, during WWII, if someone had been idiotic enough to offer up a prayer to the Emporer of Japan (he was and is their god, by the way)...do you think it would have been incumbent on a bunch of legislators to stand by respectfully?

I doubt it.

The Muhammed Moon cult is more dangerous than even the Japenese emporer cult was then...and that fact should give a whole lot of people pause, in consideration of how much misery that false religion brought upon our world and our country.

You should also remember what it took to bring that cult to an end...and how brutal we might have to become to preserve our lives and our liberty from the Islamists.

[nmh]

I would have excused myself too. This muslim allah is NOT my God nor will I support him by praying to him. It is right to excuse yourself from worshipping a false god.

[nmh]

I would have excused myself too. This muslim allah is NOT my God nor will I support him by praying to him. It is right to excuse yourself from worshipping a false god.
<p.Need I remind these intolerant folks that freedom of religion APPLIES here. Just don't expect me to worship a false god and certainly not suppport a religion that wants me dead!

[brownie]

I hate to break it to you, but the constitution does not mandate that anyone sit and listen respectfully to a prayer. It simply upholds each individual's right to pray as they wish (i.e. the freedom of religion). Therefore, these individuals walking out on a prayer they don't agree/believe in, does not undermine the constitution.

Moreover, in today's America, their actions took more courage, and supported the constitution much more than the forced "diversity / tolerance" that you seem to support. Again, the constitution does not require those of us not of the muslim faith to listen to a muslim prayer, or even to invite a muslim to pray at a public event. It simply provides protection for the muslim to pray how he/she sees fit.

Your response to this story reminds me of people's attitudes toward freedom of speech. People think that means they can say anything, anywhere, such as on the job. Just because the government cannot prosecute someone for making a statement, does not mean that an employer cannot fire someone for making the same statement. Big difference. No one is required to be subjected to the speech of another under the constitution.

[Texas_Jarhead]

"We open this session of House of Representatives in the name of Allah the one God Abraham, God of Moses, God of Jesus, and God of Mohammed, peace be upon them all. . . ."

I would have had to do something here (leave or silently recite prayer of my own) because to me this is a blaspheme. My religion does not teach that Allah is the God of Abraham, Moses, and Jesus. Neither Allah or Mohammed is even mentioned so to pray to them is a sin and sacrilege.

[nmh]

"The Holy Quran says that (one should) always respond to bad action with good and those who used to be enemies become friends."

That *hit book also state to kill the infidele.

[VOA]

bump

[Aquinasfan]

Would that be the same Holy Quran which says 'kill them where they are found?'

Yes. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

[brownie]

Is it also bigoted when liberals do the same type of actions toward christians? After all, this type of thing is done to christians on a daily basis in this country from the left, but I have yet to hear anyone on the left denounce that as bigoted. I guess it is only bigoted when a republican does it.

That's what I like about liberals. It is not the act or intent that they care about, only the party affiliation. Hence, Bill Clinton was allowed to sexually harass and rape, without a word from the left.

[Aquinasfan]

In the same manner, one could say that Christianity spawns the likes of Fred Phelps, Eric Rudolph, "Christian Identity", the "Reconstructionists" and the so-called "Army of God" wackos.

Uh, no. It's a matter of degree, an enormous degree. There's a reason why 90% of all wars currently being waged ring the periphery of the Mohammedan world.

The Catholic Encyclopedia had it right way back in 1910:

In matters political Islam is a system of despotism at home and aggression abroad. The Prophet commanded absolute submission to the imâm. In no case was the sword to be raised against him. The rights of non-Moslem subjects are of the vaguest and most limited kind, and a religious war is a sacred duty whenever there is a chance of success against the "Infidel". Medieval and modern Mohammedan, especially Turkish, persecutions of both Jews and Christians are perhaps the best illustration of this fanatical religious and political spirit.

[eabinga]

Do away with all prayer on the floor. Those that want to pray beforehand, can go outside and do it private.

PROBLEM SOLVED!

[newgeezer]

Sure, in Iraq or Saudi Arabia, this Muslim cleric would likely be executed on the spot for uttering the words, "Allah or God" (especially in a prayer). That's what tolerance will get you there.

[dennisw]

My G_d is the same as yours even though Jesus is not the Jewish messiah. If your belief is different, then so be it.

[Kryptonite]

"They need to understand that like (President) Bush said . . . Islam is a peaceful religion."

The most disgusting part of this article is the Muslim's reference to "Bush", just "Bush", not President Bush, not even Mr. Bush. The article editor apparently doesn't know how to use brackets correctly either.

That is more disrespectful than a couple of elected officials quietly moving toward the back of the room during his prayer to allah.

It also signals to me someone who probably is not just someone who won't support the President, but someone who probably is a heckuva lot more uncomfortable with the administration than a couple of Washington representatives are with Muslim prayers.