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To: scripter; Illbay; White Mountain; drstevej; CARepubGal; wai-ming; Calvinist_Dark_Lord
We're pushing 300 posts and other than Wai-ming, I don't think there has been a single serious post addressing the issues presented in this article. Now the thread has deteriorated into a cartoon fest.

Having now taken the time to read this article, I believe that it presents a compelling case as to why, from a philosophical standpoint, the Mormon god is quite inferior to the God that is presented in the bible and that has been presented by Orthodox Judaism and Orthodox Christianity.

It is interesting that none of the mormons tried to refute this little quote. Maybe they missed it:


"Based on the statements of Mormon leaders, some LDS scholars contend that a premortal spirit is "organized" by God through "spirit birth." In this process, human spirits are somehow organized through literal sexual relations between our Heavenly Father and one or more mother gods, whereby they are conceived and born as spirit children prior to entering the mortal realm (although all human persons prior to spirit birth existed as intelligences in some primal state of cognitive personal existence).15 Since the God of Mormonism was himself organized (or spirit-birthed) by his God, who himself is a "creation" of yet another God, and so on ad infinitum, Mormonism therefore teaches that the God over this world is a contingent being in an infinite lineage of gods.16 Thus, Mormonism is a polytheistic religion."

Now this is my understanding of how little spirit children are "organized" in the premordial life. The footnotes point to these sources.

15 Bruce McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, 2d ed. (Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1966), 386-87, 516-17, 750-51.

16 See Joseph Smith, History of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (hereafter HC), 7 vols., introduction and notes, B. H. Roberts, 2d rev. ed. (Salt Lake City: The Deseret Book Company, 1978), 6:305-12.

Does anyone care to refute this? Or is this an accurate statement of LDS theology? If it is incorrect, please correct us and show us the sources that you rely on for a differing opinion.
290 posted on 02/17/2003 10:02:37 PM PST by P-Marlowe (Are you ready to meet your "Organizer?")
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To: P-Marlowe
But at LEAST Illbay has dropped all (most?) of his pretensions...
296 posted on 02/17/2003 10:09:31 PM PST by Elsie (You have NO better hope than Jesus!)
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To: P-Marlowe; White Mountain; CubicleGuy; Utah Girl; rising tide; Grig; Rad_J; Illbay

Why would I waste spit with an ex-Mormon! I find it more productive to talk to one with an open mind!

You want to reinforce your point of view continue to read anit LDS material.

298 posted on 02/17/2003 10:12:16 PM PST by restornu (Great out let for a dyslexic!)
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To: P-Marlowe
I haven't read more than 10 posts on the thread, nor I have read the article but this is such an easy thing to refute. In fact it refutes itself in the first line.

***Based on the statements of Mormon leaders, some LDS scholars contend***

Notice it does not say the "Mormon Church teaches" or "most Mormons believe." It says SOME SCHOLARS. There isn't even a source to any scholars only sources to leaders that some scholars supposedly based opinions on.

And then it says that some believe that God has sex with one of his "wives". I have never seen a reputable Mormon source that has ever taught that God has sex. It is found all over in anti-Mormon writings but never with a reputable Mormon source. God does things his way, not our way.

1 Corinthians 8:5
For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)

By the definition given, Paul was also polytheistic since he said there were many gods in heaven. I can name a few gods like Zues, Jupiter, Allah, and Satan(2 Corinthians 4:4). That doesn't make me polytheistic. Christians also say that Satan is the god of this world so by this definition, all Christians are also Polytheistic. Pretty silly, huh.

Polytheism is the worship of more than one god. Mormons worship God the Father, in the Name of Jesus Christ, by the power of the Holy Ghost which is One God.

P-Marlow, what kind of lawyer are you? Are you trying to present facts or just trying to prove your case using falsehoods?

Luke 11:52
Woe unto you, lawyers! for ye have taken away the key of knowledge: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered.

I am still not discussing anything with you but this pathetic and incorrect opinion of Mormon beliefs needed a little refutation as you pointed out. I don't know why they didn't just quote Mormon leaders instead of giving opinions of opinions based on what they actually said.

My sources are the same ones you gave and the paragraph itself that starts off saying these opinions are only based on what some scholars contend. How about you giving some real sources to Mormon scholars who actually said these things?
323 posted on 02/17/2003 11:13:35 PM PST by Rad_J
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