Philosophical Problems with the Mormon Concept of God

Christian Research Institute ^ | Francis J. Beckwith

[Illbay]

Isaiah was speaking sarcastically, btw. What the Israelites of his day considered "righteousness" was hollow, and baseless.

Again, I have to remember how little understanding you all have. Filtering through your "creeds" makes this inevitable.

[drstevej]

***Calvinism was simply a new, wrong way to look at our relationship with God, that replaced an old, wrong way.

In later years you had other movements, like New Age, an even NEWER, wrong way to look at our relationship with God.

Fortunately, in the Spring of 1805, the world was changed forever when the old, TRUE way was restored to the earth.***

An outstanding example of Mormon historical scholarship. This is a truly amazing example of Outcome Based spiritual education. Bet the boys at FARMS are proud of you.

Thanks for the chuckle. I'm not laughing with wou, I'm laughing at you.

[Illbay]

Yeah, you laugh, but you give no rebuttal.

I can't remember a time when you ever even attempted to give a rebuttal.

In fact your responses are usually about on a par with Restornu's.

Only thing is, Restornu is just a lady who happens to be a "Mormon."

You hold yourself out to be some sort of "Calvinist" scholar (assuming that isn't a contradiction in terms). Where much is given, much ought to be expected, but from all I can see, you simply JPEG where she GIFs.

[drstevej]

Fine, let's discuss your little history lesson.

Define the term Calvinism so we can make sure you have some idea of what you are talking about. So far from your statements about Calvinism thus you show no working knowledge of it.

I have read the Book of Mormon, have you ever read the Institutes?
I'm not asking if it made your bosom glow, but have you ever read it?
Explain how much of Calvin's writing you have actually read.

[Ruy Dias de Bivar]

***Isaiah was speaking sarcastically***

I see no sarcasm in it.
I also have no creeds to remember.
All scripture is given by the inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine, reproof for correction, for instruction in righteousness; that the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works 2Tim 3:16-17

Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. But SHUN profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness. 2Tim 2:15-16

You are really hung up on this creeds thing arent you!

[Calvinist_Dark_Lord]

I can see by your rebuttal you have not a clue of what you are saying- Sad!

So sorry that you have been decieved to the point that you can no longer recognise the TRUE word of God to His people. Or is it rather that you need golden plates translated by a couple of "peep stones" in a hat?

[Calvinist_Dark_Lord]

Calvinism was simply a new, wrong way to look at our relationship with God, that replaced an old, wrong way.

You do not have any idea of what you speak and betray your ignorance dear fellow.

In later years you had other movements, like New Age, an even NEWER, wrong way to look at our relationship with God.

Who is "you"?

You mean an age of "reformed heirogliphics" on Golden Plates, "translated" by "peep stones" in a hat, by a money digging, sexual pervert with a good story to tell?

Fortunately, in the Spring of 1805, the world was changed forever when the old, TRUE way was restored to the earth.

And YOU have to audacity to call US "new age", LOL

[Illbay]

I have the audacity to recognize that Joseph saw Jesus Christ and God the Father, in a vision in the sacred grove, in 1805.

[drstevej]

I have read the Book of Mormon, have you ever read the Institutes?
I'm not asking if it made your bosom glow, but have you ever read it?
Explain how much of Calvin's writings you have actually read.

[Calvinist_Dark_Lord]

I have the audacity to recognize that Joseph saw Jesus Christ and God the Father, in a vision in the sacred grove, in 1805.

Sacred grove, and where was that?

Sounds a little like Benjamine Creme and the Tara Foundation in 1982.

You have a lot in common with them.

[JesseShurun]

Christ did not baptize you, unless He was physically present in the room

Maybe restornu can get a lightbulb for you. Better for you to go throw yourself off of a real cliff now than to continue with your hatefilled ranting. You are in deep spiritual trouble. I don't think I've ever seen such a hater of Christ and His people here on FR before, not even on the evolution threads. I really found your Jewish slur interesting too, as I am one. I hit the abuse button all the time, so keep it up.

[Illbay]

Okay, you're right, I'll grant you. I have NEVER read actual source works of Calvinism. I have only seen what people like you SAY about them. Perhaps you're right, and I am not sufficiently informed.

One reason is that I spend what time I have to devote to it learning about my own religion.

So, inform me. Tell me what I OUGHT to know, not what I think I ought to know, about your beliefs. I am always willing to learn.

[Illbay]

Listen. The people of Christ all belong to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, or they will belong to that Church. Ergo, I don't hate them, because I'm one of them.

And I am not the one who spins one damnable thread after the other, attacking your religion.

Consider that before you spout off, pal.

[JesseShurun]

Keep it up

[CARepubGal]

Sorry! I do not own a D&C nor would I have that crap in my home. Therefore I cannot tell you what this portion of Joseph's Myth was. And frankly, you spend a lot of time with all us apostates: does your bishop know you are interacting with the evil ones? :-) (No offense Marlowe)

[CARepubGal]

Ummm D&C 135 (the Joseph was more important than Jesus bl;asphemy) pops into my mind.

[CARepubGal]

That is knotty. Besides, trapeezes are so much more fun....

[Wrigley]

With or without a net?

[CARepubGal]

Oh with of course. I never quite got the unicycle thing and it reminds me too much of clowns.

[P-Marlowe]

Calvinism was simply a new, wrong way to look at our relationship with God, that replaced an old, wrong way

As everyone on these threads knows, I am not now nor have I ever been a "Calvinst." But there is no doubt that the principles of "Calvinsim" are taught in the Bible, specifically by Jesus in John chapter 3 and by Paul and the author of Hebrews. The doctrines of election and predestination are principles that would be impossible for a mormon to believe, because a mormon believes in a FINITE GOD. Only an infinite God could know from the foundation of the earth who will or will not be saved, as the infinite God has no beginning and has no end and is not bound by the strictures of the dimension of time.

Your puny little man/god was supposedly promoted to the position of "god" by some superior being at some point in the past and the future for him is as clear as mud. Your dream of becoming like him will quite possibly come true as your finite man/god is surely destined for the same eternal fate as satan and his angels.

When your "organizer of the earth" god meets the Creator of the Universe God, there will be no doubt as to whom you will bow. But, if you keep worshiping this minature man/god, by then it will be too late.