MM wrote "I have noticed the insults have been flying around quite a bit. I have also noticed that a couple of these evos are bordering on losing it completely --
I'm just letting you know what you are getting into by disagreeing with them. They will call you a fool, question your credentials, and flame you repeatedly.
Guess the fact that over 75% of the World's population thinks evolution is bunk doesn't matter to them. Oh well."
Gore3000 started the insults and I think I am free to call anyone who makes a fool out of himself a Fool.
As to losing it, I have just been having fun with you people who believe this Creation nonsense. I have better debates with real scientists over the merits of savannah theory over Aquatic Ape. (I personally think a modified aquatic ape theory will win out).
I Have been called a fool my credentials were questioned and I was flamed over and over. :) I wonder if pretending you are a Saint will work any better than repeating a mantra of Irreducible Complexity or Geologic Column.
Gargantua others have expressed their opinions of your post. I have no real Interest in debating Irreducible complexity again today so I'll just posit a new debate.
All this debate comes down to is how the Universe began
The Universe could have began in three different ways
1. God could have created the universe 6-10 thousand years ago populated the world with animals that cannot evolve or change in any appreciable way. This universe was created with fossils and artifacts in place and the light coming from stars millions of light years away was created already on its way. In this universe natural laws are meaningless and God changes them at his whim.
2. God created the universe. He set the natural laws in place and these laws gave rise to animals and humanity through a process scientists call evolution. In this universe God created natural laws that govern how and why things happen. He was so far sighted that he has no need to disobey the laws he set forth at the beginning of creation on a whim.
3. The Universe exists independant of God. There is no need for a God becuase the Universe has either always existed or if it hasn't always existed the concept of "Before the Universe" is meaningless because time can't exist outside the framework of the natural laws that make up the universe.
As rational beings we can ignore the first universe. The Creationists will want to know why we should ignore it so I'll elaborate. Any God who created a universe with fossils in place and light from distant suns already on its way to earth has basically lied to his creation. This type of God is not that God that Christian's claim to believe in. This is a God more in Keeping with Muslim mythology a God that seeks to trick his creation so that they can not attain salvation without blind unthinking faith.
This leaves the two other concepts of the Universe and I really could care less which of the two are correct. God either created a universe with natural laws in place or he doesn't exist and the universe itself is the primary. It is that simple. If God does exist (I dont at this moment believe he does but that is personal opinion as I can't disprove he exists the same as you can't prove he does) If he does exist you as creationists should marvel at the complexity that this God instilled into his creation. Your God that created everything at one time and in place wasn't very creative but one who creates natural laws which work to bring about his progeny (US) through evolution is a much more intriguing figure.
There is a difference between evolutionists and Creationists one that strikes at the heart of the matter. If evolution was shown scientifically to be wrong and replaced with a more fullfilling theory evolutionists would give it up. W have no faith in the theory we have a rational belief.
If God was to suddenly be proven without a doubt to not exist creationists would deny the evidence they would close their eyes and scream "NO IT DOESN'T" and NO IT ISN'T" at the top of their lungs hoping the evidence would be submerged beneath the strength of their protests.
As to 75% not believing in the concept of evolution it wouldnt matter if 99.9% didn't except it the majority is rarely right That is the very reason the founding Fathers created a republic rather than a democracy.
Sentis, You've contradicted yourself a few times. You say "I have just been having fun with you people who believe this Creation nonsense.", then go on to say later "I can't disprove he exists the same as you can't prove he does."
That is a perfect example of an evolutionist who wants a "bail out": you say Creation is nonsense but then go on to say you can't disprove it. You are leaving the door open, just in case. Why? Because you don't honestly believe that you, Sentis, evolutionist, evolved from 'bubbling primordial goo'. You like the idea of leaving the option of Creation open, should you find out in the end that the study of evolution was really a study of adaptation and the beauty of the Creator's work, as opposed to the haphazard, unguided, evolved Universe that you perceive it to be.
You said "If evolution was shown scientifically to be wrong and replaced with a more fullfilling theory evolutionists would give it up." You don't want me to start filling you in on the countless debunkings, do you? Or expose the lies and BS that the evolutionist camp has been driving down the public's throats since Darwin and even before him? By the way, speaking of incorrect material, there are textbooks and instructors in schools all around the world still preaching Darwin's blather. Let's work to clean 'em up, shall we? I have links I can provide if you would like. [Lurkers FReepmail me and I will hook you up].
Anyway, I like how you outlined your theories. Thanks for the read. I have to run now and get my wife some Christmas gifts. It's the most wonderful time of the year, ho ho. Happy Holidays.
MM