[Fester Chugabrew]

"The concept that rights only exist if one can defend them has a long philosophical history."

That's a far cry from saying inalienable rights exist because we can defend them. If man is "endowed" with these rights by virtue of a Creator - which is what our forefathers held, wrote out, and defended - then these rights exist apart from our ability to even recognize or defend them.

[f.Christian]

3000...3001

[tpaine]

"The concept that rights only exist if one can defend them has a long philosophical history."

That's a far cry from saying inalienable rights exist because we can defend them.

No one here made that claim. - See my rebuttal to your mistake.

If man is "endowed" with these rights by virtue of a Creator - which is what our forefathers held, wrote out, and defended - then these rights exist apart from our ability to even recognize or defend them.

Exactly my original point, except that a 'creator' is not needed to make that point valid. -- Mans self evident reason & free will are the basis of our rights.