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To: Doctor Stochastic
"As Stalin was explicity anti-Darwinist . . . "

Anti-Darwinist, perhaps, but certainly not anti-evolutionist. It was Darwin who "won" Stalin over to atheism. The following quote referencing Henry Morris sheds some light on evolution and communism:

Another interesting facet of history is the connection between evolution and communism. With communism the struggle of "race" is replaced by the struggle of "class" as history is viewed as an evolutionary struggle.

Both Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels were evolutionists before they encountered Darwin's "The Origin of Species" - (Dec 12, 1859) Engels wrote to Marx: "Darwin who I am now reading, is splendid" (Morris 1989, 83 quoting Zirkle). Like Darwin, "Marx thought he had discovered the law of development. He saw history in stages, as the Darwinists saw geological strata and successive forms of life... In keeping with the feelings of the age, both Marx and Darwin made struggle the means of development" (Morris 1989, 83 quoting Borzin). "There was truth in Engel's eulogy on Marx: 'Just as Darwin had discovered the law of evolution in organic nature so Marx discovered the law of evolution in human history'" (Morris 1989, 83 quoting Himmelfarb).

"It is commonplace that Marx felt his own work to be the exact parallel of Darwin's. He even wished to dedicate a portion of Das Kapital to the author of The Origin of Species" (Morris 1989, 83 quoting Barzum). Indeed, Marx wished to dedicate parts of his famous book to Darwin but "Darwin 'declined the honor' because, he wrote to Marx, he did not know the work, he did not believe that direct attacks on religion advanced the cause of free thought, and finally because he did not want to upset 'some members of my family'" (Morris 1989, 83 quoting Jorafsky).

Other Soviet Communist leaders are evolutionists as well. Lenin, Trostsky, and Stalin were all atheistic evolutionists. A soviet think tank founded in 1963 developed a one-semester course in "Scientific Atheism" which was introduced in 1964. Also, a case can be made that Darwinism was influential in propagating communism in China.

Interestingly, according to Morris, Stephen Jay Gould of Harvard University, the co-founder of the punctuated equilibrium theory of evolution is a Marxist in philosophy, along with other distinguished Harvard evolutionary scientists and university professors across the country. One has to ask - could a person espouse the Marxist view and tolerate creationism?

Evolutionism has proven itself to be blight not only upon intellectualism but also general morality, your disingenuous claim ("one must assume that it's other countries that are based on evolution, not communist . . . ones") notwithstanding. No wonder folks are beginning to clamour for disclaimers!

Hey. If you want to keep company with the likes of Lenin, Trotsky, and Marx, be my guest. I prefer Galileo, Newton, Copernicus, and others who are not so stupid as to omit God from the bigger picture.

1,929 posted on 01/01/2003 1:51:16 PM PST by Fester Chugabrew
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To: Fester Chugabrew
Evolutionist have the advantage...everything is changeable---lies/liars!
1,930 posted on 01/01/2003 2:03:20 PM PST by f.Christian
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To: Fester Chugabrew
Potential (mis)application of a theory is irrelevant to the validity of said theory.

Shirley, you cannot have forgotten the last time this was pointed out to you.

1,931 posted on 01/01/2003 2:13:27 PM PST by Condorman
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To: Fester Chugabrew
I prefer Galileo, Newton, Copernicus, and others who are not so stupid as to omit God from the bigger picture.

And Cardinals Ximenez and Richelieu. And Leopold of Belgium. And Ian Paisley. And the Taliban. It's a package deal - you also get all those who have perpetrated evil in the name of God, as well.

1,932 posted on 01/01/2003 2:15:27 PM PST by general_re
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To: Fester Chugabrew
Hmmm.... guilt by association and arguing from the consequences, n'est-ce pas?
1,936 posted on 01/01/2003 2:29:20 PM PST by BMCDA
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To: Fester Chugabrew
Hey if you want to keep company with Satlin, that's ok with me. So far, Stalin was the only anti-Darwinist with enough power to execute the evolutionists.
1,968 posted on 01/01/2003 3:58:49 PM PST by Doctor Stochastic
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