Drug laws won't be on the fall ballot, but tobacco money will

Detroit Free Press ^ | September 11, 2002 | DAWSON BELL

[VA Advogado]

A carefully planned and well-financed campaign to overhaul Michigan's drug laws crashed Tuesday, as the state Supreme Court declined to place the issue before voters in November.

Without comment, the court upheld decisions issued last week by the Court of Appeals and a state elections panel to keep the drug question off the ballot.

[WyldKard]

So now you are losing ground, and have to change the parameters of your own question? the question was: How many LIVES ARE SAVED by the recreational use of substance X. Not: Does substance x has any positive benefits? Fast food tastes good and does provide sustenance.

Taste is a matter of opinion. A lot of fast food tastes awful. Over use of fast food makes you fat, and causes health problems. Sinces it causes obesity and health problems, and is a "drain" on society, why aren't you arguging for it being banned? You did not answer the question: Does recreational use of fast food save lives.

Alcohol is used in all manners of cooking and a good glass of wine compliments a good meal.

You did not answer the question: Does recreational use of alcohol "save lives"? Pot makes food taste better, and compliments movies and music. You don't NEED alcohol for cooking or for your food, so you might as well ban it, since it causes all these problems for society, yes? Alcohol is the number one abused drug, breaks up homes and families, causes death. Why aren't you out there trying to get it Prohibited?

Coffee also tastes good and is uesd in social situations to help ease tension.

Again, taste is opinion-based, and coffee is addicting, and long term use is linked to health problems. Again, you did NOT answer the question: How many lives have been saved through the recreational use of coffee?

Tobacco while bad for the health dosen't make one a stoned pot head. It does give one halitosis, an awful cough, more prone to sickness and can make people generally unpleasant to be around, especially if they are a chain smoker. I could not stand my roomates chain smoking, but I never tried to ban his cigarettes.

What is it about "being a stoned pot head" that is so dangerous that it requires violating the Constitution to ban pot? A substance LESS harmful than alcohol. Face it, you just don't have any good reason for it.

So you see your little knee jerk liberal reaction of saying these products on par with your precious pot is ludicrous, when one looks at the different uses of these products.

Hey, don't yell at me because you can't even answer your OWN questions properly.

But that doesn't matter to you, IMHO. You are on a crusade to replace the ceremonial glass of champagne with the communal bong at weddings.

Please show me where I have said such a thing. It appears straw man arguments and slander are the only tools at your disposal.

[Kevin Curry]

THe only reason people steal is because the drug prices are so incredibly high, due to the black market.

I've heard shoplifters make the same defense for stealing a 25 cent package of gum. A thief is a thief. He usually steals because the opportunity is there to steal and the temptation to instantly gratify his impulsive wants overpowers his flaccid self-control and weak moral compunctions against theft.

It usually isn't any more complicated than that.

Dopers who steal do so because they are compulsive, lack self-control, and demand instant gratification. It has virtually nothing to do with cost. These are not rational, clear-thinking people. If they were rational and clear-thinking, they wouldn't be using dope.

[A2J]

WyldKard: And people don't kill people, guns kill people. Thus, we should ban all guns.

What WyldKard and other dopers fail to realize is that guns do kill people, especially when they put the gun to their heads.

[Kevin Curry]

I don't know about you but I would rather have to be in a crowd ot POT smokers than boozers

I try to avoid both.

[Dane]

Hey, don't yell at me because you can't even answer your OWN questions properly.

I have to go, the real world intrudes, but in passing you should really send a resume to the New York Times, IMO, you would fit in there quite well.

[Kevin Curry]

Oh, but I guess having your pilot blow a .23 on the breathalizer is OK because alcohol is legal.

I sure don't. Throw him in jail with the doper and the drunk driver who has just blown a .23 on the breathalyzer.

[vin-one]

Firearms help protect innocent lives and property, how many lives have been save by the "recreational" use of a joint, crack pipe, or used heroin needle?

Well Dane since you are completely against MJ medicinal, So what is the difference
in your little JBT world you would throw a MJ smoking cancer patient in Jail.
So which is it Dane, Can we have medical uses of MJ or not???????

[WyldKard]

I have to go, the real world intrudes, but in passing you should really send a resume to the New York Times, IMO, you would fit in there quite well.

Translation: Wyldkard just handed my ass back to me, and now I need to crawl up in the corner and cry my eyes out like a little girl.

Thanks Dane. It was fun watching yet another one of your tortured arguments crumble. I still remember the time you tried to convince us that coffee houses created crime in Amsterdam by posting an article that showed that crime went UP when coffee houses were shut down. That's the sort of logic and brilliance we have come to expect from you...

[vin-one]

those instances you site are taking a recreational item and using them for a practicle purpose,
therefore during that use they are no longer recreational but lifesaving, get a clue. Just like MJ can be used recreational and also for practicle purposes. No difference, Thankyou again you are changing peoples minds everyday to be against the WOD

[WyldKard]

What WyldKard and other dopers fail to realize is that guns do kill people, especially when they put the gun to their heads.

So naturally, your kind would be all for banning guns, because...gasp..they could be used to hurt people?

Once again, you are a perfect banner-holder for the socialist movement to absolve people from personal responsibility...

[A2J]

Cocaine is often used in rhinoplasty and other sinus surgeries. Morphine is a widely used anesthetic. Opium derrivatives in general have been used for centuries in surgical proceedures just as they continue to be used today.

And all of which were/are used under strict legal/medical guidelines and are not for general public use where it will be abused.

Get it?

[Hemingway's Ghost]

Not comprehending my third-grade level point, and your witty response is a prime example of the adverse effects of drugs. Please keep it up, you are doing a world of good for the anti-drugs side.

Well, since you're such a sophisticated, well-reasoned person then, perhaps you'd like to explain to me and to everyone here how supporting and endorsing a New Deal era interpretation and expansion of federal powers under the Commerce Clause is a good, conservative stance.

[Cultural Jihad]

The campaign, largely financed by three wealthy businessmen including international financier George Soros, spent hundreds of thousands of dollars to organize the effort and collect more than 450,000 signatures. ...

But a technical error in drafting the language for the proposal proved fatal. The campaign's amendment called for the creation of a new Section 24 to Article 1 of the state Constitution. The state Constitution already has a Section 24, adopted by voters in 1988 to protect crime victims' rights.

I'll bet Soros is sore. It sounds like his lawyers who drafted the proposition were too stoned or he was too cheap to get better ones.

[A2J]

RE: #113

Yes.

[Cultural Jihad]

I've heard shoplifters make the same defense for stealing a 25 cent package of gum. A thief is a thief. He usually steals because the opportunity is there to steal and the temptation to instantly gratify his impulsive wants overpowers his flaccid self-control and weak moral compunctions against theft.

Here is the Thief's Rationale: "You have it. I want it. Therefore it's okay to take it."

[A2J]

Firearms have taken more innocent lives and property than joints ever have.

And to think that guns are legal!

Now imagine what it would be like if drugs were legal.

[A2J]

As has been pointed out before, Hitler was addicted BY HIS PHYSICIAN! Recreational usage wasn't part of the equation.

Yeah, and Hitler never ordered his physician to give him drugs, right?

[uncbob]

If your dream of legalizing marijuana ever came true, the amount of accidents caused by drivers going to slow or saying look at the pretty colors overthere and taking thier hands off the wheel would go up dramatically.

I doubt it
Those who would be addicted to it or abuse it are the same ones who are already doing it with alcohol
A drug is a drug

But the corruption violence and other evils especially loss of rights associated with the WOD would go away

[Roscoe]

"The campaign's amendment called for the creation of a new Section 24 to Article 1 of the state Constitution. The state Constitution already has a Section 24, adopted by voters in 1988 to protect crime victims' rights."

Stoners. Too funny.

[tdadams]

Hillary, Abbie Hoffman, the weather underground, Bill Clinton, Jane Fonda etc. etc. It was the dope smoking hippies who idolized Stalin, Mao, and Ho.

You're drawing some parallels that are completely irrelevant. It really shows pathetic desperation on your part. I'm sure there are plenty of dope smoking neo-nazis who idolize Hitler, Mussolini, and David Duke. There are dope smoking libertarians who idolize Ayn Rand.

Bottom line is there are dope smokers who run the gamut and drawing any anecdotal conclusion about the political allegiances of dope smokers is about as instructive as drawing anecdotal conclusions about the political allegiances of Pepsi drinkers.