Government Raid Victims of the "War on Drugs"

http://apll.freeyellow.com/raids.html ^ | ---

[Whilom]

The alliance -- between socialism and druggies -- is real and there for anyone to see. To deny it is merely to reveal legalizing arguments for what they are -- naive or cynical. To ignore Mommy Government in Holland, and elsewhere that the legalizers have prevailed with smoke and mirrors, is to ignore the danger -- both from Mommy Government and those who seek to destroy American freedom.

[tdadams]

I think your tinfoil hat is on a little too tight.

[Abundy]

The WOD needs to go, but that Aguilar fella, he died of his own stupidity. A guy is parked near your house so you go get a gun to scare him off of public property? What a kook. He pretty much deserved what he got. Don't go pulling guns on people without being prepared that they'll pull one on you in self defense. ALso, don't try and be a macho man and scare people away.

If I was a gun owner and some guy came out with a rifle because he didn't like where I was standing, I'd sure as hell pump a few holes in him too.

Ah...but he wasn't a "gun owner," he was a law enforcement officer whose presence in a neighborhood drew the suspicion of an alert homeowner. (who this agent is supposed to be working for, by the way)

When confronted by the homeowner the Law Enforcement officer did not identify himself and conducted himself in such a manner to further arouse the suspicions of the homeowner.

The Agent should have identified himself the first time he was approached; he should have identified himself the second time prior to firing any shots.

Having worked plainclothes, there's no excuse for the killing of this innocent homeowner. I've pinged another LEO for a second opinion.

[Cap'n Crunch]

Ouch, that story is ugly. If it were me I would have called the Sheriff's Dept. and had them send out a car to check the guy out. That would have made the agent real happy, a nice big fat marked unit pulling up behind him.

I believe the agent should have ID'd himself though, not smart to get into an argument with the homeowner. If the homeowner had the guts to come out and confront the agent, he probably wasn't the type of guy to just go back in his house and forget about the whole thing. But, walking back out with a gun wasn't real smart either.

I'd like to hear some more particulars about the whole thing.

[Abundy]

There is plenty of stupidity to go around here, no doubt. If this were a story about two civilians the responsibility would largely be lumped on the homeowner However, the individual in the vehicle was a law enforcement officer, and we expect our law enforcement officers not to be stupid...since it leads to people getting killed.

All he had to do was flash the badge and tell this guy he was on official business.

[Cap'n Crunch]

Your right.

[Whilom]

Why is it that Socialists can't face facts?

[tdadams]

Why is it that WODdies call everyone who's not a WODdie a socialist? Who's the one not facing facts.

Liberty starts with the government minding it's own business instead of raiding people's homes.

I ask you again, which is worse, the socialism you (falsely) accuse me of, or the fascism you clearly advocate?

[Whilom]

Just stop for a minute. Take a deep breath. Count the countries that have legalized dope or are seriously considering it. All Socialist, with strong undercurrents of anti-Americanism. Is that the road you're asking Americans to take?

[tdadams]

Don't patronize me with your sanctimonious pap. As I said, correlation in this case is only good for making snide insinuations. According to you, water must be poisonous because 100% of people who drink it eventually die.

Count the countries that have legalized dope or are seriously considering it. All Socialist, with strong undercurrents of anti-Americanism.

I'd be really interested in hearing your definition of socialist. I'd also be interested in knowing how many of these supposedly 'socialist' countries you've actually been to.

I suspect you're taking at face value anecdotes you've heard from other fellow hysteria mongers with a rabid anti-European sentiment. Nothing like brandishing people socialists to squelch the debate.

[Whilom]

I'd be really interested in hearing your definition of socialist. I'd also be interested in knowing how many of these supposedly 'socialist' countries you've actually been to.

Are you suggesting now that Germany is not socialist? That it does not have a strong undercurrent of anti-Americanism? Switzerland? The Netherlands? Denmark? Sweden? Norway? Finland? The list continues. I've not only visited extensively in all of them, but also lived in two of them for extended periods. One of my life's greatest regrets was witnessing the disaster legalization brought to Amsterdam. In 10 years Amsterdam's Mexico City Bar, where Camus' novel "The Fall" was located, went from a good-natured meeting place for ideas and Bohemians to a free-fire zone. Now all the writers belong to the State. Spin, Camus, spin. Freedom? Uh-huh, freedom to be dependent on Mommy Government.

[tdadams]

You're looking through some seriously filtered lenses then, because I've seen the typical WODdie hysteria about Amsterdam to be mostly a myth.

I suppose you favor the more ardent drug-intolerant countries like Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, and Pakistan, who, oh yeah, also happen to be very anti-American.

Choosing between to two extremes, I'll take the civilized and peaceful people of Europe over the vitriolic warmongering people in the Middle East, who happen to share your attitude about drugs (among other things most likely).

[Whilom]

I figured that, given the opportunity, you'd reveal your tender feelings for Socialists and Socialism.

[tdadams]

Oh, yeah, people confuse us libertarians for socialists all the time. Our philosophies are only about 180 degrees apart. Real keen intellect you've got there, genius.

I guess in your book anyone who's not a boot licking fascist is a socialist.

For the third time I ask, which is the bigger enemy of liberty, socialism or fascism? Again, you've never answered me, probably because you seem to be so enamoured with fasicsm.

[tdadams]

I suppose you also think William F. Buckley and George Schultz are pinko socialists. They also support legalizing drugs. You're defending your ridiculous assertion to the point of absurdity.

[Whilom]

Gee, I didn't know Buckley and Schultz were countries. Chalk another one up to public education.

[Whilom]

First the liberals and socialists infiltrated and destroyed the Reform Party. Now, disguised as "libertarians", they have moved on and are rapidly making the Libertarian Party a one-issue organization. They are committed to the idea that you can fool enough of the people enough of the time -- at least until the people are drugged up and dependent. After that, they figure, it won't matter. The rest of us know that liberals and socialists in other countries are playing the same song -- and with some success. That's why only those countries have legalized drugs or are seriously considering it. Well, they will not crucify America upon a cross of crack cocaine.

[tdadams]

I'm laughing at your utter stupidity. First, I believe if anyone bears the blame for destroying the Reform Party, it's Pat Buchanan, who is hardly either a liberal or a socialist.

Secondly, what kind of idiotic response is "I didn't realize Buckley and Schultz were countries." You obviously can't handle, in an intellectually honest way, the fact that these two people, who's conservative credentials are flawless, are both in favor of ending the war on drugs. Why don't you at least make an attempt at addressing this fact rather than making yourself look like a blind and rigid follower of the War on Drugs?

So you avoid any attempt at reconciling this hole in your theory (because you can't) and instead simply make a wise-ass retort and dismiss that aspect of this complex situation.

You don't address it because you know it makes you a liar. Simple as that. There are conservatives who oppose the war on drugs. Me, Buckley, and Schultz among them. Again, tell me which is worse, socialism or fascism? I do believe you're very fond of creating a fascist state of America.

[tdadams]

I do think it's very telling that I've asked you four times if you don't condemn fascism and you've completely ignored the question. I think my answer is right there. You're clearly the definition of a fascist.

[Whilom]

Wrong again. I fight the fascists and the socialists like yourself. I'm a conservative and, like other conservatives, I'm determined that the extremists on the left like you and extremists on the right like al Qaeda won't go unchallenged or unpunished when they try to drug America to set us up for the final kill.