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To: BuddhaBoy
Here is where the whole Freedom thing becomes dangerous for some. I think you are having a hard time with the notion that the idea of Freedom, means the ability to disagree. That disagreement can be regarding someone's personal morality, and to some that is an unacceptable conclusion.

No, here's where the Freedom thing becomes dangerous for all. When it is not limited by moral compasses instilled in us from not only religious teachings, but our ancestors who fought to start a nation of states and believed the same things. By accepting a 'rolling' standard of morality you are no better than a liberal. The Constitution is a 'living breathing document' or 'it feels good, it's not hurting anyone so do it' or 'well it's my choice', all lines used by liberals in the past 50 years to destroy the morality, yes instilled morality that the Founders believed. And that belief was instituted in state laws, not federal, that were passed to enforce that morality

Morality means different things to different people. Why not simply adhere to your OWN personal morality, and allow other theirs?

Oh, well that's just grand isn't it? Tell me, if it's the right of each and every citizen to do whatever the h#ll they want, is it safe to say you'll take all the porn shops and sex shops in your neighborhood then? Because A LOT of citizens of their respective states don't want them for one reason or another. It goes back to the living breathing document issue. I find it humorous, no sad really, that a phrase that has been used for years by liberals is being picked up by those that consider themselves conservative to condone something that their grandparents would beat the ever living stuffing out of them if they discovered some of these hidden actions. Aren't conservatives trying to return or stop at a certain level of not only government control, but moral decline. Seems to me I used to hear that in Republican platform speeches on an everyday basis. Now we have a 'conservative' candidate here in NC (Viagra Bob's wife, Giddy Dolt) that has actually promoted the homosexual lifestyle in some of her previous positions

In your example of driving, I would think that we all decide to accept the consequence of our driving, knowing that every time we do, we take our lives in our hands.

Well I'm glad you're a testament to strength then because I can give first hand examples of people that not only 'thought' they could handle it, but continued in it knowing full well they were trapped. I would leave you with a much quoted yet often ignored statement from the 2nd President of these United States, John Adams. It was true then and if the Constitution is worth the paper it was printed on, it is still true today. Whether or not you choose to accept these words are up to you but it doesn't change the intent, meaning, and the belief of the Founders

“We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion; our Constitution was written only for a moral and religious people, and it is wholly inadequate for the government of any other.”

242 posted on 07/30/2002 7:45:52 PM PDT by billbears
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To: billbears
No, here's where the Freedom thing becomes dangerous for all. When it is not limited by moral compasses instilled in us from not only religious teachings, but our ancestors who fought to start a nation of states and believed the same things. By accepting a 'rolling' standard of morality you are no better than a liberal.

I think you missed my point. I didnt say anything about a 'rolling standard of morality', I only suggested that your version of morality might be different from that of others, and that freedom allows for that, where religions and other standards do not. There are not, nor should there be exceptions to Freedom. To do so, would make the very Constitution you sight, a hypocrital exercise.

I find it humorous, no sad really, that a phrase that has been used for years by liberals is being picked up by those that consider themselves conservative to condone something that their grandparents would beat the ever living stuffing out of them if they discovered some of these hidden actions. Aren't conservatives trying to return or stop at a certain level of not only government control, but moral decline

I personally think that very meaning of Conservatism has been stolen and redefined by those looking to impose a certain ethic and behavior on others, in the same way that Liberals do. Conservatism is about limiting ALL forms of control, not just governmental. You might read your Consitution again. It is a difficult notion for some to accept that Morality is not defined by Conservatives or Liberals, but by the Individuals that the Constitution is designed to protect. The Constution says that you and I have a right to disagree on our words and deeds, so long as we don't limit each others pursuit of happiness. You and I might agree that what some people choose in that regard to be unfortunate, but that doesnt give us the right to stop them.

“We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion; our Constitution was written only for a moral and religious people, and it is wholly inadequate for the government of any other.”

Respectfully, John Adams was one man, intitled to his opinion. There were plenty of forefathers in complete disagreement with him. The fact that he was a President means only that. There are plently of quotes from Presidents good and bad, and I certainly would not expect you to agree with every one of them.

255 posted on 07/31/2002 10:03:42 AM PDT by BuddhaBoy
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