Posted on 07/28/2002 12:03:58 PM PDT by BADJOE
Free Republic and Liberty Post.org
To all:
I would hope your appearances and posting on these pages states your desire to undo years of liberal policies in this land I hope we all dearly love. I would hope that a hundred successful LibertyPost.org and FreeRepublics would advance the cause we all hold near and dear.
From what I have read here it seems many are more interested in fighting each other than they are in advancing the cause of individual liberty and limited constitution government as envisioned by our forefathers.
If my second paragraph is the truth, shame on you.
Let us stop the petty bickering about crap that doesn't amount to a hill of blue beans and get on with the job at hand.
I don't know what gave you that idea. The founders of LP have no "hardon" for FR. However, several well known FReepers have mounted a campaign to turn LP into a battleground between themselves and their AF counterparts. BadJoe went trolling there and stuck this same vanity in their breaking news section, after the LP site manager provided the LP/AF wankorama participants with their own section for their little mutual hatred society.
Frankly, bashing is not desirable, I was not advocating a bash anything and everything free for all. I think excessive hyperbole shows a weekness in one's argumentation.
If you went there looking for that and that only then I would guess you found some. I can go in here and find a bunch of the same. I can find some in both sites who never had a constitutional thought in their life. When you went into the site you had a choice. You could either look for a discussion on a matter of interest to you and could seek out subjets of genuine honest debate, or you could find a smaller bunch within the forum of narrow minded brain washed persons following blindly an idea or purpose without thought as to where it leads. Same in here.
I lurk there, I post there. I do not flame FR there nor do I flame LP here.
It's a new forum and it will take time to see disruptors rather than debators go. If you looked in the past several days you would have noticed it is indeed a lot more disciplined to serious debate.
I lurk in a couple of more sites as do many freepers. But what I find the most insane is those who come in here saying hey look what was posted in DU let's go start a war and disrupt their site. Why? Are they as free Americans not entitled to their beliefs as well? It only invites problems for JR when persons do this. Personally I hope both sites {LP and FR} grow and more are added especially for my taste Independent Constitutional based forums. I'll post things over there I won't post here simply because I do not want to fight a flame war. Though the idea I likely posted usually not so long was held common even in this forum and among many conservatives.
Last night I was called among other things a liberal. Those who know me and my political leanings know better than that. I was defending a person that not so long ago was a hero amongst us. Seems if anyone dare question a certain political eliete they are automatically labeled liberals. Way to go people persons like Stalin and Hitler made the worship of government rather than the control of government the rule of the day. Are we headed there also by silencing reasonable debate and silencing addressing reasonable concerns?
I go to LP to see post of some post from some good and very reputable posters who simply moved on not the disruptors we all know so well.
Part of the problem is, the current inertia of this nation towards federal power is immense. We have had some successes towards stopping the more blatant federal power grabs, but the barge is still drifting in a direction we don't want, just a bit slower. It's going to take a long, long time to change direction, and we all should be steeled for that.
However, to accomplish that, the entire nature of internet activism will probably need to change. So far, we have been successful with political guerrila tactics, to keep the statists from achieving some of their objectives. But the statists still control the key levers of power, namely the minds of probably seventy percent of the people in this country. We need to build, to convert folks one at a time, while in the meantime only picking the fights we can win. If you read up on Peter the Great, he realized that he could not defeat Sweden in head-on battle for several years. That did not stop him from inflicting harm in the meantime - he built triemes, for example, to harass Swedish sailing ships in the Baltic. But the point is, he set an objective and stuck to it over the long term, and then finally defeated Sweden in battle.
That is what conservatives need to do. Realize the current political climate, work to change it, and try to decide what is possible until we accomplish that. Simply saying that something is unconstitutional and that is that does nothing. The feds are up and doing it, and simply declaring that the feds shouldn't be doing it does nothing to alter the fact that they are...
I FLOAT LIKE A BUTTERFLY AND I STING LIKE A BEE - FOR I AM THE HACKSAW MAN!
Look, I'm not going to change the policy. Period.
Prior to their arrival, when we disagreed we debated and required the other side to provide links and/or cites to back up their assertions. When I first arrived here I was taken to task for my support of asset forfeiture in it's current form by Jim Robinson, OWK, tpaine and others. It got warm, but never was I flamed. I would make a point and they would counter. I was wrong in my positions for a number of reasons. It bagan to become clear to me that on that issue I was out of step with my positions on other Constitutional issues, after a time I came to understand this fact and modify my position(s) on asset forfeiture. Always those individuals responded with logic and humor - never invective and personal insults.
That debate would never occur today on FR, because the afore-mentioned individuals, when confronted with a tough call intellectually, fold up their tents and resort to distortion, distraction and just outright flames. Do I have a tendancy to pop off now and then? Yes - with those posters. But I don't suffer fools lightly and they try every ounce of my patience. Which is why I ignore them now.
Sorry if you don't like the facts, but that is what they are. BTW - That response you quoted wasn't "bringing something over here," it was a response to a question to another poster. So if you don't like my post, at least have the decency not to mischaracterize it - refute it with facts and logic.
That's nothing. One of them said he wants to see Jim Robinson "...writhing on a cold damp cell floor". They've made fun of Mrs. Robinson. They've attacked John Robinson's girlfriend. They've attacked another's wife. They make fun of the way Freepers look in rally photos every chance they get...on and on, year in and year out.
One thing that really stands out is now that a couple persons they spent years denigrating are feeding the AFers some private info, they're best buds with the head AFers...what friggin hypocrites!
Well, I was actually quite offended that you didn't. But I will overlook it, this time. Just don't let it happen again.
FR doesn't appear to have improved YOUR critical thinking if you can't distinguish between the RLC and the little wannabe forums created by the malcontents.
We all do. However, you should see some of the responses to criticisms of Operation TIPS...
;^)
Leave LP over there, and vice versa. Jims site, Jims rules. I still dont understand why the originator of this thread has to go public, why he can't go to Jim in PRIVATE and ACCEPT his final word.
It looks more to me as though FR is being eaten by a handful of self-impressed do-nothings who can't handle the fact that conservatives are independent and often disagreeable. The self-impressed do-nothings aren't conservatives themselves and will never understand conservatives. They should toddle off and form their own little soccer mom cult of celebrity for politicians instead of wrecking this one.
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