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To: BroJoeK
But such an alleged unlimited "right" does not exist, never did, not in 1776, not in 1787 nor in 1860.

I don't even understand what you are trying to say here. We come at this thing from completely different foundational assumptions.

There are no "limits" or "conditions" on a natural right. It is inherent, granted by nature and nature's God, and no one may gainsay it.

Read some John Locke, or Samuel Rutherford. Read some of the natural law philosophers our founders studied when they asserted their independence, contrary to England's consent and contrary to England's established law.

412 posted on 01/30/2016 10:53:57 AM PST by DiogenesLamp ("of parents owing allegiance to no other sovereignty.")
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To: DiogenesLamp; rockrr
DiogenesLamp: "There are no "limits" or "conditions" on a natural right.
It is inherent, granted by nature and nature's God, and no one may gainsay it."

So repeats DiogenesLamp, endlessly.
But no Founder ever asserted such a natural, unlimited "right of separation".
Instead, the 1776 Declaration was in response to an itemized list of dozens of, in effect, British breaches of contract, including a formal declaration of war and launching of war against the colonists.

By 1776 Benjamin Franklin alone had spent ten years in Britain trying to negotiate better conditions for colonies within the British Empire.
He was in no sense eager for separation and accepted its necessity only reluctantly, after many years.

Of course, DiogenesLamp's assertion that you believe in an unlimited "right of separation" is just fine: believe whatever you wish, so long as you obey the laws.

But there's no evidence suggesting that's what our Founders believed.

415 posted on 01/31/2016 3:57:06 AM PST by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective...)
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