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To: BroJoeK
Thank you again for taking the time and effort for a thoughtful reply.

Pardon me for not copying, pasting, and italicizing your last post, but I think the majority of posters on this thread are here to debate slavery/Civil war vs our Second War of Independence.

First I do not agree that your point -which I take to be, that the War of 1812 was a war launched by the United States to conquer and annex Canada - is “obvious.” I do, however, agree with your point that Canada was not a real country, but simply the area occupied by 1) the British army 2) the remnant of New France and 3) those citizens of the United States who, in 1783, could not bear to live under a self-governing republic and followed whatever internal compass they had to a land where loyalty to a monarchy suited them.

Secondly, you err in stating that our invasions were all failures. Our invasions won the war for us; particularly the spectacularly successful invasion that at lead the British-Shawnee catastrophe at Moraviantown. That was the decisive land battle of the war.

Finally, your question was “what could possibly be the fate of any part of Canada, invaded and held by the United States, other than annexation?” Fortunately there is unambiguous historical answer to this. In 1748, Americans (NOT BRITISH MILITARY; AMERICANS) invaded the most brilliantly designed fortress in the hemisphere at Louisbourg. We took it; and to settle the War of the Austrian succession – the only on of the “French and Indian Wars" that France arguably “won”, it was returned to France in exchange for concessions on other war aims. That was how war was conducted in those days. We wanted to keep the Northwest Territories (and the last-held British war demand at the negotiating table, before our brilliant successes in the Autumn of 1814 forced theme to capitulate, was that we NOT keep the Northwest territories.)

424 posted on 09/24/2012 4:46:18 PM PDT by Castlebar
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To: Castlebar

Apologies for double post.


425 posted on 09/24/2012 4:49:58 PM PDT by Castlebar
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To: Castlebar

Apologies for double post.


426 posted on 09/24/2012 4:49:58 PM PDT by Castlebar
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To: Castlebar
Castlebar: "First I do not agree that your point -which I take to be, that the War of 1812 was a war launched by the United States to conquer and annex Canada - is “obvious.” "

What's "obvious" and undeniable is that the US intended to drive the British out of Canada.
What's debatable is what might have been done with Canadian territory once the British were driven out.

So, you suggest that having fought a war to drive the British out, US negotiators would then negotiate them back in -- but in exchange for what, exactly?
And why?

You forget how much our Founders hated the British, having suffered under and fought them for a generation, they wanted the Brits out of North America.
So why, having conquered Canada would they negotiate the Brits back in?

Castlebar: "Secondly, you err in stating that our invasions were all failures."

I said no such thing.
Including the Revolutionary War, by my count the US invaded Canada eleven times.
Of those eleven, US forces were successful at the Battles of York and Fort George in spring 1813, before defeat at the battle of Beaver Dams.

In the fall of 1813 US was again successful at the Battle of the Thames -- aka Moraviantown.
But with his army's enlistments expiring, General Harrison soon withdrew from Canada, and so gained nothing there.

All other US invasions of Canada, including two more after Thames / Moraviantown, were defeated.

428 posted on 09/25/2012 4:46:36 AM PDT by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective....)
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