Ryan is a good man, but does not redeem the abortionist/homosexualist statist Romney

Aug 11, 2012 | Jim Robinson

[Norm Lenhart]

D, Ansel and I have spilled more of each other’s virtual blood than I could collect in a 55 gallon drum. Trust me when I tell you that he needs no help from me to hand you your virtual hat...virtually speaking ;)

[pops88]

“As far as being Jeff’s apologist, if you wanted your comment to be private discussed, and your criticism in secret, then you should have sent it to him via private message. Posting such a comment in a public forum allows all to read, join in with you, or criticize you.”

Yes it does. But for as much as you’ve defended him, preempting him answering me himself, there is a hint of sycophant there, and I know Jeff has been well respected on FR. I don’t really care for a third person, sycophant opinion. I want to hear what Jeff has to say. A third person’s opinion of what he meant is, well, worthless opinion since you don’t know exactly what he meant. You can only post your own speculation. I’m only interested in what Jeff has to say about his post unless you’re his official spokesperson.

[DRey]

Oh! Now you speakie de English!
So you are fretting over this passage in Joseph Smith's blasphemous book: "Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue."

Yeah. "gods" Lowercase. Heaven is a wonderful place per the Bible. We'll live without end, from everlasting to everlasting. We'll continue. Joseph Smith couldn't seem to stand the suspense so filled in his version of the blanks.

If you are trying to get me to defend Joseph Smith, you won't succeed. If you are trying to get me to defend Mormonism, you will surely fail. I believe the Bible if perfectly clear on the subject of false prophets, and those that "cause others to sin." It is much less clear (arguably silent) on what happens to those souls who are mislead but still believe Jesus is their Lord and Savior without whom all is lost -- and who diligently attempt to keep God's commandments (plus some). I believe in mercy for the merciful. I believe God is love. And I believe Romney when he says he believes Jesus Christ is the son of God and his Lord and Savior. The rest is between him and God. Any problems with that? Take it up with God if you ever meet him.

[DRey]

By the way, Ansell, I am not a Mormon, if that is what you think. I was born to a Christian missionary to the Mormons in Idaho. My dad supported his work, and our family, as a John Deere tractor dealer in Texas — just to clear up any confusion.

[DRey]

Oh, Norman, you and your wishful thinking. It’s truly a pleasure.

[LukeSW]

Luke, I’ve made it quite clear that I disagree with the theological premises of the LDS, but the questions have to be obvious. Inasmuch as the LDS has endorsed standards of clean and moral living that are shared by most civilized world religions, why is it seemingly winking at how Mitt Romney has carried on his governance contrary to such standards? Why didn’t Mitt sooner bow out of the governor’s seat in Massachusetts than be an instrument of setting up gay marriage there? And why didn’t Mitt’s doing so create a huge hubbub in Salt Lake City?

Great questions! One answer to your second question is "I don't know."

I have been an interested observer of Mitt's policies and have been significantly disappointed over the years. That is why during the primaries Mitt was not my choice. Now we are facing a Hobbesian choice. Like many, I will enthusiastically support Mitt and Ryan over Obama and his media masters.

At the same time I will write, I will argue, I will urge Mitt to become a leader of moral, family values in the cultural war we are facing. If he continues to run from this responsibility and opportunity he may well lose the race and become a footnote president, in the grand tradition of Bob Dole and John McCain.

But understand this, Mitt is a pragmatic utilitarian. He appears to make his political moves based on cost-benefit analysis, rather than from the core of any principled belief. That means he can be swayed by data, by reason and by concerted grass roots efforts. Personally, I think we will see Mitt evolve and become more conservative on moral issues. The choice of Paul Ryan is a good sign. But I could be way off base. Nevertheless, I am 100% sure there is a better chance of that than moving Obama out of his socialistic corner.

As to your first question, if your pronoun reference is to the actual Mormon Church, you must understand that it and its leaders are extremely careful to maintain neutrality with respect to candidates, political positions and parties. So what you have observed is not a surprise. This insight is also a partial answer to your third question. The other part of the explanation is probably the effects of some mixture of "identity" politics and passive ignorance.

For example, my Utah based sister was shocked I did not automatically support Mitt during the primaries. She would have been more shocked to know I volunteered to help a couple of the primary candidates know how to best deal with the religious issue and exploit Mitt's weakness on moral leadership.

[nicmarlo]

Calling me a sychophant because I disagree with your public attempt to chastise Jeff? If your motivation wasn’t to public ridicule him then you’d have sent him a private question. He was quite clear with what he wrote, and it is you who twisted it into a question of the type ‘so when did you stop beating your wife’ and later disingenuously stating that you merely wanted clarity. So, no, I don’t let those kinds of remarks stand. And the sychophant is you, as you keep feeling the need to go on and on and on and on with your posts to me for ‘daring’ to call you out on it.

[Jeff Chandler]

Hey, I popped out for a while to watch an episode of Law & Order, Special Victims Unit on Netflix. It was the episode where the girl gets raped. Did anything happen while I was gone?

(I think the detective is a RINO.)

[ansel12]

So in post 975 I asked “Isn’t Romney striving to become a God someday?”

You said yes, and now you say yes again, that seems pretty easy, all that mess, anger, and personal attacks you threw at me in between, don’t seem appropriate.

So Mitt will become a God and rule over a planet, and probably have celestial wives and such, won’t he?

[pops88]

“He was quite clear with what he wrote.”

No he wasn’t, but you’ve been rabidly defending him, rather than letting him defend himself.

[piytar]

Um, it is in the book. Repeatedly.

[ansel12]

So you aren’t Mormon, and you were born to a Christian, but you yourself are without a religion that we would recognize?

[nicmarlo]

He has nothing to defend. That’s the point.

Your question was taking his statement completely out of context and as I’ve pointed out to you, you didn’t ask in any kind of genuine spirit of wonder. And the rapid dog here is you.

[pops88]

I took nothing out of context. From what he wrote he indicated he would do what he could, then consult God. That's putting the arm of flesh before God. I asked him to verify if that was his position. I took nothing out of context and you're the one who made an issue of this by trying to be his spokesperson. It could have been cleared up with one post from Jeff.

[nicmarlo]

We’ve already gone over this.

He said he’d do whatever he is able, and THEN, AS THE SCRIPTURE SAYS, he will WAIT UPON THE LORD.

Where does that say anything that you accused him of doing: acting mindlessly and then read the scripture to see what he’s supposed to do?

[ansel12]

But understand this, Mitt is a pragmatic utilitarian. He appears to make his political moves based on cost-benefit analysis, rather than from the core of any principled belief. That means he can be swayed by data, by reason and by concerted grass roots efforts.

Mitt Romney has always been a dedicated, passionate liberal, until he started preparing for the presidential campaign. There is no conservatism in his pre presidential primary life, which was almost the 60 years, the man does have a strong political core, and it is liberal, but his supporters keep pretending that he doesn't, and that we don't that he does.

[ansel12]

Why are you on a social conservative site if you despise social conservatives so much?

[presently no screen name]

1 Corinthians 2:15 "The spiritual person judges all things, but is himself to be judged by no one."