Abe Lincoln was a dictator??? (Need Help combating loony argument)

[erod]

Hi FRiends,

I have two brothers who I love very much, they’re young and libertarian Ron Paul supporters, sigh. We get along and I’m hoping that one day they’ll come back to conservatism, but they have bought into a theory that I don’t think makes much sense:

Abe Lincoln was a dictator.

There are many websites dedicated to this nonsense you can Google "Abe Lincoln dictator" and get some weird stuff, if you want to check it out.

I need your help in busting this myth are there any books I can read on this subject to dispel this stuff? Do you know any of the arguments to combat this nonsense? Ie. Lincoln did not want to free the slaves.

Thanks for taking time out of your day to help me out, -Erod

[Non-Sequitur]

As in the past you try to blame others for your faults.

That is very much a Southron trait.

[Idabilly]

Lost Cause fanatic, Idabooby. Then what are you still doing here?

-------------------------------------------------

Lincoln cult chairman, Non-Sequitur. Is still defending holding people and their States hostage.

"Be what?" Independent and Free

[Non-Sequitur]

Is still defending holding people and their States hostage.

That doesn't mean you have to stick around and take it. It's a big, wide, wonderful world out there. Surely there is somewhere that approximates your vision of what your glorious confederacy would have turned out to be? Seriously, if you had to choose any place in the world other that occupied Idaho to live in where would that be?

"Be what?" Independent and Free

For 2/3rds of your population anyway.

[Lee'sGhost]

Yeah, we have a long tradition of blaming others for our mistakes. It started with what used to be known as the most respected man in American history....George Washington.

But who cares about the facts, right.

[Idabilly]

Every State is occupied by you liberal loons!

Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, are struggling for their rights just the same. Being from Illinois - You wouldn't appreciate Self Determination much. You are ( at best ) a McCain style Republicrat.

[Non-Sequitur]

Yeah, we have a long tradition of blaming others for our mistakes

You do. It was Lincoln's fault that you had to bombard Sumter. It was Lincoln's fault that you had Reconstruction. It was Lincoln's fault you lost your war. Well, maybe that last part is true but you get the idea. Lost Causers accept no responsibility for their actions and all the pain and suffering that resulted.

[central_va]

You have no clue do you. You really do think we live in this fantasy world where the Constitution is followed, we will "win" back the whole country and it will suddenly become what the founders believed in. I guess if you think the first CW was "all about slavery" then you will believe anything.

Our problems have gone WAY past political in nature. We are entering a new phase. Forget the past, what will the excuse this time for the federal heel to stomp a state(s) that finally leave this cartoon republic? Illegal immigration?

[central_va]

With 1776 being 100, meaning the Constitution followed as originally intended. What score would you give the following dates? I will go first:

1. 1776 = 100
2. 1860 = 75
3. 1865 = 50
4. 1910 = 40
5. 1940 = 30
6. 1965 = 20
7. 2010 = 10

[Idabilly]

I received this following email:

From SCV Missouri Division

I have always been proud of my time spent as an officer in the United States Marine Corps. I served in the Republic of Vietnam in 1969 and, while I was certainly no “John Wayne” type, I tried to do my duty to the best of my ability and I did bring all of my platoon out of Vietnam alive.

This past summer, the son of a friend of mine was very ‘gung ho’ about joining the Marines and asked my opinion, which I tried to give as honestly as possible, warts and all. I don’t know if my discussions had any influence on him, but he enlisted, completed all of the pre-enlistment tests and physical exams and went to all of the pre-enlistment meetings. To say the least, he was very excited about serving his country in the Corps.

Shortly before he left Nashville for boot camp, he was told he could not serve his country because he had a Confederate Battle Flag tattooed on his shoulder in an area that would be completely covered by a t-shirt, and certainly by his uniform.

When informed of this, I went to the local recruiting station that had processed this young man to see if I were getting the entire story. The recruiter, a staff sergeant, told me, “Yes, sir. The Marine Corps considers the Confederate Flag a ‘hate symbol,’ but if the young man in question had a state or U.S. flag tattoo, that would be acceptable.”

I informed the young sergeant that my family had defended the State of Tennessee (also his home state) against a sadistic invasion under that flag and to call our sacred flag of honour a ‘hate symbol was an insult to ALL southerners, but especially to those southereners who had risked or even given their lives in service to the Marine Corps. Southerners had served at Belleau Woods, at Taraw and Iwo Jima, at Inchon and the Chosin Reservoir, and at Khe Sahn and Hue City, but now we are no longer wanted in the politically-correct don’t-offend-any-minorities military? (This was just prior to the Fort Hood massacre)

He was polite, even sympathetic, but said the flag policy was a Marine Corps policy from Headquarters Marine Corps and not a local decision. After informing the sergeant that it seemed to me that our military was building a mercenary force of illegal aliens while rejecting native-born Americans in order to have a ready force to turn, without question, on American citizens, I asked the sergeant if he had taken out the trash yet. He replied that he hadn’t.

I then said, “Please add these to the day’s garbage,” and returned my lieutenant’s bars, my gold and silver Marine Corps emblem from my dress blues, my shooting badges and my Vietnam ribbons.

I, like many of you, have always been told, “Once a Marine, always a Marine,” and “There are no ex-Marines, only former Marines,” but for me that is no longer true.

I was born in the South. I was raised here. I raised my family in the South and some day, God-willing, I hope to be buried in the native soil of our Southern homeland. I have always considered myself a Southerner first, and will remain so, despite any other organization that I may temporarily join.

I will never make a critical remark about a veteran, from any branch of the service, but from now on, I will do everything in my power to discourage any Southern young man, or lady, from becoming a future veteran. I am now an ex-Marine.

[southernsunshine]

“We are entering a new phase.”

I think this phase is called, “Normalization”. I’m not too up on this so I’ll look it up but, am fairly certain this is the phase we’re in.

I agree with your score of, 2010=10.

We have congresscritters who think nothing of publicly stating that most of what they do is unconstitutional, etc.!

We also have those who mock and ridicule us and all the while, they ignore our requests and grieveances.

And we have a NUT @ 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. who makes statements such as, “If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun.” I call that a rabble rouser, not a statesman!

I do pray for peaceful resolutions to our present circumstances but, to borrow a line from another FReeper (don’t remember who or on what thread), “It’s going to be a long summer.”

IMHO one of the first steps to righting that which is so wrong, is to show these career politicians the door and never allow this situation again. Then dismantle all the ridiculous government agencies, including but not limited to, the IRS. Next, strip all the insane laws, supposedly meant to protect us, which serve only as shackles on our feet.

Question is.....how do we accomplish it all?!?!?!?

[mac_truck]

I believe you need to do a bit more research before you castigate the service of any indiviual, whether man or boy.

You obviously have no clue as to the purpose, nor the importance, of the drums and bugles within the regiments. Their job was even more important than those who carried the colors.

They were indeed soldiers with a very important job. Why would you denigrate their service by stating they weren’t meaningful soldiers? Just what objective truth is being twisted here?

Yours is a typical 'lost causer' response when faced with an uncomfortable truth, which is to take offense at some perceived slight to dignity, honor, or family. The entire purpose of course is to lead the conversation AWAY from that uncomfortable truth to the extent possible.

How many people here knew that the three men being touted as 'proof' that the South had black confederate soldiers fighting for their cause were simply musicians (drummers, buglers,etc.) who weren't issued weapons? Or that one only served six months and was dismissed due to 'old age'? If you're simply relying on the confederate propoganda sites for your 'history' than you certainly wouldn't.

Simply put these are not jobs that men were recruited into, by eithe side in the Civil War. Southrons at that time did not consider adult blacks to be men, nor did they trust them with their own weapons, so it makes sense that they would have them serving in that capacity.

If I had to guess as to why those three black men went into the service of the Confederacy, I'd say it was probably for the same reason alot of poor whites did, an opportunity to own a coat and pair of shoes and the promise of being fed regularly. There were also plenty of blacks serving alongside their masters in the field.

So SSS if you really want to prove your worth around here, show me some evidence that the South ever fielded a black fighting force of any kind and we'll go from there.

Otherwise feel free to kiss my grits!

[Non-Sequitur]

You have no clue do you.

On the contrary I think you're the one living in his own fantasy world.

[central_va]

actually

1776 should be 1787.

[Salamander]

And ~whose~ superior battle strategies and tactics do they still teach at West Point, to this very day?

Ironic, isn’t it?

[southernsunshine]

“United we stand, Divided we fall” is a phrase that has been used in mottos, from nations and states to songs. The basic concept is that unless the people are united, it is easy to destroy them. This is a counter to the maxim divide and rule.” (Wiki)

“I was born in the South. I was raised here. I raised my family in the South and some day, God-willing, I hope to be buried in the native soil of our Southern homeland. I have always considered myself a Southerner first, and will remain so, despite any other organization that I may temporarily join.” (email)

Hate to tell them.....without the Southern spirit we will fall. Perhaps this is the intent. What the young recruit experienced is discrimination. Last time I checked, discrimination is illegal. The PC destruction of our military and nation is breathtaking! When nations engage in pacifying the few to the detriment of the many, that nation cannot stand.

Oh, but I forgot...”Teh One” said we are but one nation among many.

[central_va]

I believe, in my life time, a governor(s) will push the federales over the tenth ammendment to the point where that governor(s) will be threatened with arrest . The ensuing Constitutional crises will force that state(s) to decide if it will continue being the bitch of the Feds or stand up. Just like in the 19th century, slavery was the catalyst, amnesty/illegal invasion may be the issue now.

We can only hope.

"Secession belongs to a different class of remedies. It is to be justified upon the basis that the States are Sovereign. There was a time when none denied it. I hope the time may come again, when a better comprehension of the theory of our Government, and the inalienable rights of the people of the States, will prevent any one from denying that each State is a Sovereign, and thus may reclaim the grants which it has made to any agent whomsoever."

                 -- Mr. Davis, Pres. CSA

[mac_truck]

I informed the young sergeant that my family had defended the State of Tennessee (also his home state) against a sadistic invasion under that flag and to call our sacred flag of honour a ‘hate symbol was an insult to ALL southerners, but especially to those southereners who had risked or even given their lives in service to the Marine Corps.

That's a crock of sh!te.

[cowboyway]

And ~whose~ superior battle strategies and tactics do they still teach at West Point, to this very day?

[cowboyway]

That's a crock of sh!te.

Something that you're intimately familiar with.....

[Salamander]

Yep.

Imagine that.