[presidio9]

I appreaciate your response, but it reminds me why I have made a rule never to get into discussions of theology on this website where I come about politics. You have your beliefs, and I have mine. This is not the place have this discussion. I like all Catholics, I wish you the best in your brand of beliefs. I don't think they make you less likely to get into Heaven, and your conversion doesn't interest me particularly. Your opinion on my salvation, or that of my fellow Catholics could only matter less to us if you were not a Christian all. In other words, I don't agree with you, but I want what's best for you. You are obviously not the first intelligent person who found great disagreement with the Catholic Church. You may have even found a better way for yourself. Best of luck with that. with all sincerity, which is not the same thing as license to voice your personal theological disagreements on a thead about Catholic politicians on a political web forum. It's neither the time or the place. How would it be if I went into a thead on Isrealis in Gaza and started wondering why they were still holding out for a Messiah when He already came to them 2,000 years ago? I'd call it rude, and I'd be suprised if people were so cordial to me.

That being said, your understanding of the Catholic Church and its history is limited by the typical slant of those who grew up in a protestant faith. Because of that, I forgive you for the common misconceptions that you posted at the end, which I might otherwise have considered lying. Again, theology has no place in this thread or in this forum. If you must contiue this discussion, start a vanity, and ping me in. That being said:

1) Is an historical attack against the Church that ignorant protestants have made for centuries. Pelagius found some favor in his early life, but the Chuch condemned him later, along with his teachings. Again, I have not wish to discuss this with you further here. You made your point, I have made mine. Pelagius has not place in Catholic theology. Sorry you didn't know this.

2) The Catholic Church reaffirms the central concept of free will constantly. Predetermination has no place in Catholic doctrine.

3) The Church positions ordained priests only as counselors and administerers of the sacraments. Nowhere does the Church suggest they must to be instrumental in the process of salvation of a man. Another lie often repeated by the ignorant with only those at war with the Catholic Church as a source of information. Even before the Reformation, lay missionaries were venturing out to places where they would likely never encounter another priest for the remainder of their lives. Did they go to hell for their troubles?

4) Another lie. Catholics believe that good people of all faiths may be saved. Including your own. And of course we believe our way of worshiping is best for us. For that matter, we believe that members of non-Christian faiths may also be saved. From the way you have been talking, its very likely yours does not, which is, of course, a completely illogical and motiveless concept for the God I love and honor.

Anyway, I hope this helps. Your understanding of Catholicism is decidedly limited and one-sided. If you want to continue posting negative things about a religion that encompasses the core beliefs of more people than any other, the least you could do is educate yourself a bit more before proceeding. Peace be with you my brother.

[Dutchboy88]

Very interesting protracted response for someone who made himself a rule to never gets into discussions about theology on this website. Your answer is itself a discussion. However, I understand your interest in cutting this off and respect your wishes. I don’t want to engage folks who have no interest in visiting over a matter.

That does leave me a little puzzled about the questions and comments you make, however. Not sure if you just wanted to smack me (...”I’d call it rude, and...”) and run or if you really wanted to discuss this matter.

Irrespective of your response to this dilemma, I will leave you with this...your numbered responses contain a series of misunderstandings about the remarks I made and a number of internal contradictions. Should you change your mind, or perhaps I should say, if God grants you an opportunity to revisit these matters, let me know. Until then, Grace be with you.