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To: Dutchboy88
You are right on all counts, but you are not nearly as clever as you are trying to be. I'm not that clever either, so I'm going to try to paraphrase your intentions here: You think the Catholic Church has gotten to large, and is no longer doing God's work. I disagree with you, and would point to the fact that at least 17 Senators are being called out a second time specifically because they are Catholic. I would also point to the added attention abortion, gay marriage, indivdual charity, family, etc. get specifically because 1/4 of the people in this nation are Catholic. All of this is God's work, whether you like it or not.
72 posted on 05/07/2009 9:17:31 AM PDT by presidio9 (Islam is as Islam does.)
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To: presidio9

A rather kind and measured response.

I was not trying to be clever, but rather represent my theological perspective.

To my intentions...It is not that I believe the Catholic Church has gotten too large, and is no longer doing God’s work. It is that I believe that the Scriptures describe the Gospel in a way that is quite different than the Catholic Church describes it. Consequently, the Catholic Church is burdened with a number of difficult situations that the biblical Church does not carry. The biblical Church is not a monolithic organization headed by a single man on earth, irrespective of what that organization now claims.

The Church is referred to as the Assembly of believers, congregating in homes, tunnels, cemetaries, halls, and really anywhere that the Gospel according to the Apostles could be taught. There they fellowshipped (encouraged each other), broke bread (ate together and celebrated the resurrection), prayed (entreated God to teach them and increase their faith), and listened to the Apostles teaching (had the men gifted for teaching tell them about the unfolding story of Christ).

You can tell from the letter to the Romans that there was not a central headquarters that directed the “organization”. Really, there were hundreds of these small groups everywhere. The Roman influence began to compel these to acquiesce to their leadership, rather than the groups elevating Rome. Additionally, Rome, while it did recognize a small number of correct doctrines, departed the Gospel on the big issues, such as...

1. Does a man choose God or God choose men? Augustine tried to argue this from Pelagius, but semi-pelagianism has captured the hearts of the RCC leadership.

2. Are men then predestined or do they have “self-will”? This became a hated topic, because it removed the authority of Rome back to God (connected with the first point).

3. Do Priests have to be instrumental in the process of salvation of a man? The priesthood was a product of the Mosaic Law. Yes, they existed before the Law, but so did sacrifices. This sacerdotalism of Rome is a holdover from the Law and, although the book of Hebrews clearly explains the passing of the Law and its accoutrements (sacrifices, holy days, etc.) the RCC continues to demand it to retain the “control” over believers. This is just what the Reformers fought and denied. There is now just One Priest, the Man Christ Jesus who sprinkles any man whome He desires. That man was at war with God, but then comes to faith.

4. They believe they have the “keys” to the kingdom of Christ. This is nonsense. The “keys” to the kingdom is this recognition that Jesus is the Messiah, the Rescuer of Israel first, then the Gentiles. If you see that, you hold the keys. If I see that, I have the keys.

There are others, but as you can see, I think the RCC has departed the real message of Christ sufficiently to be considered teaching “another gospel”. They have said their organization is the central matter, not Jesus. They claim He authorized them to be central, but that is more nonsense. And the 17 Senator problem is just more of the fallout of this “organizational” mentality that you have to be “in their group” to belong to Christ. Again, nonsense. But, the RCs around here will send in the dogs now to “prove” they are the chosen.

So, let me be clear, many RCs are likely saved, but not because of good teaching, but in spite of it. Christ knows who are His own. That is why I said, it is more important that He know me, than I recognize Him.

I hope grace is extended to you.


73 posted on 05/07/2009 3:03:00 PM PDT by Dutchboy88
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