Posted on 05/06/2009 8:47:15 AM PDT by presidio9
The Senate voted 65-31 to confirm Kansas Governor Kathleen Sebelius as President Obama's Secretary of Health and Human Services. Just last week Sebelius again denied protection to the unborn when she vetoed a bill that would provide increased regulations on performing late term abortions.
Nineteen Catholic Senators supported the Sebelius nomination and six Catholic Senators opposed. Two Catholic senators who are ardently pro-life supported the governor; Senator Sam Brownback and Senator George Voinovich. Senator Brownback announced his support early on which was a surprise and a major disappointment to many in the pro-life movement.
Senator Murkowski, who has a mixed voting record on life issues, voted against Sebelius.
Senator Casey who campaigned in 2006 as pro-life has a voting record on life issues that fluctuates. In January he was publicly admonished by his local ordinary, Bishop Martino, for an anti-life vote opposing an amendment to reinstate the Mexico Policy. In a letter thanking the Senator for his support of a subsequent life issue vote, Bishop Martino called on Senator Casey to oppose Sebelius as HHS Secretary. Senator Casey did not heed the request of his local Ordinary. In a statement released by the Scranton Diocese regarding Sen. Casey's vote, Bishop Martino said he was "deeply disappointed." It went on to say that the Bishop would continue to monitor Senator Casey's positions and "if necessary future determinations will be made regarding whether Sen. Casey is worthy to receive Holy Communion. However, at this point Bishop Martino believes it is incumbent upon Sen. Casey to reflect on his actions and ask himself if he should receive the sacrament."
Sebelius' confirmation hearing had been stalled due to a report that she was not forthcoming on her relationship with late term abortionist Dr. George Tiller. The AP revealed that Governor Sebelius underreported the campaign money she had received from the abortionist and the pro-life organization Operation Rescue released a document showing Dr. Tiller contributed $200,000 to defeat Kathleen Sebelius’ challenger in the 2002 Kansas gubernatorial race.
A strong effort by the pro-life community and conservative family groups to defeat the nomination was met by an equally strong effort on behalf of abortion rights groups. NARAL claimed responsibility for 22,000 messages to senators.
Gov. Sebelius' local Ordinary, Archbishop Joseph F. Naumann of Kansas City, concerned about another high profile pro-abortion rights Catholic, made the following comments in an interview with Our Sunday Visitor when her nomination was first announced:
"...I think from the church’s point of view, it’s sad because it places another high-profile, pro-abortion Catholic into national leadership along with Vice President (Joe) Biden and Speaker (Nancy) Pelosi and a raft of others that are in the Congress. And so I think it makes our job as bishops more challenging, because we have to be even more clear that this is not acceptable for a person in public service to say that they are Catholic and then to support these policies that are anti-life, you know go against the most fundamental of all human rights, the preservation of innocent life."
Fr. Euteneuer, President of HLI made the following statment on the Sebelius nomination and Senator Brownback's decision to support her:
"The situation is atrocious. An extremist abortion hack (called the most pro-abortion governor in the nation by many), who falsely calls herself "Catholic," is given the opportunity to preside over the nation's healthcare system and normalize abortion even further; this radical is then endorsed by a US senator who also calls himself "Catholic" and who, many believe, wants her job back home when she becomes the abortion queen in DC."
As Secretary of Health and Human Services, Sebelius will no doubt advance abortion rights, and affect policy on conscience protection, embryonic stem cell research and end of life decisions.
To view the list of Senators and how they voted, including how the Catholic Senators voted go to OneNationUnderGod.org
Also, excommunication from the Roman Catholic Church is a bit less of a drama than you and other non-Catholics suspect. It has long been the case that "Catholics" such as Sebelius and Christopher Dodd and Ted Kennedy and John Kerry and Rosa DeLauro and Patty Murray and Nancy Pelosi and so very many more in our public life have incurred automatic excommunication (latae sententiae under Canon Law). It is not necessary to do a formal auto da fe (however colorful and just and exemplary) nor to do a public ritual of bell, book and candle.
Before you are tempted to say that Canon Law is a tradition of men and not Scriptural, check Matthew 16: 13 et seq. and particularly verses 18 and 19 as to Petrine power and authority. Pope Benedict XV issued a codification of Canon Law during the World War I period and the current codification was issued by Pope John Paul II in the 1980s.
The Roman Catholic Church in our time comprises about 20% of living persons. To the best of our knowledge, each and every one is a sinner. It is a gigantic organization but regrettably not as gigantic as it ought to be. One would expect that a Church founded by your Savior and mine would grow and prosper over time. Yet His Father gave us free will and allowed human beings to choose sin without divine intervention to override our free will.
The relationship between your reference to the size of the Roman Catholic Church and your unsupported editorial that "it is not the Body of Christ" is not at all obvious. Is this expression of your imagination based upon your own personal interpretation of Scripture (abbreviated here by many of us as YOPIOS) or is it supported merely by the traditions of (non-Catholic) folks?
You and I are siblings in Christ and, in traditional terms, we Catholics regard you as being among our "separated brethren." You are trying somehow to persuade us to YOPIOS. Well-catechized Catholics are quite resistant (and quite understandably so) to the attempts of those who do not share the fullness of our Faith to get us to trade-in the Mass, the sacraments and the teaching Magisterium, inter alia, for the "Scriptural" fad of the week.
I am posting as I am because you have been unusually persistent in your criticism of the Church to which I belong. None of this is personal but none is to invite you to offer your opinions as to the imagined shortcomings of my Church either.
When we squabble here over the differences which separate us as to doctrine and dogma, we do so for the entertainment of our enemies who are our Savior's enemies as well. In the world in which we live, we have not earned the right to so squabble in the public square. Let us vanquish our mutual enemies and those of our God. The and only then ought we to take our discussions to the public square for the entertainment of the heathens.
Wheelbarrow & turnip.
Also, excommunication from the Roman Catholic Church is a bit less of a drama than you and other non-Catholics suspect. It has long been the case that "Catholics" such as Sebelius and Christopher Dodd and Ted Kennedy and John Kerry and Rosa DeLauro and Patty Murray and Nancy Pelosi and so very many more in our public life have incurred automatic excommunication (latae sententiae under Canon Law). It is not necessary to do a formal auto da fe (however colorful and just and exemplary) nor to do a public ritual of bell, book and candle.
Before you are tempted to say that Canon Law is a tradition of men and not Scriptural, check Matthew 16: 13 et seq. and particularly verses 18 and 19 as to Petrine power and authority. Pope Benedict XV issued a codification of Canon Law during the World War I period and the current codification was issued by Pope John Paul II in the 1980s.
The Roman Catholic Church in our time comprises about 20% of living persons. To the best of our knowledge, each and every one is a sinner. It is a gigantic organization but regrettably not as gigantic as it ought to be. One would expect that a Church founded by your Savior and mine would grow and prosper over time. Yet His Father gave us free will and allowed human beings to choose sin without divine intervention to override our free will.
The relationship between your reference to the size of the Roman Catholic Church and your unsupported editorial that "it is not the Body of Christ" is not at all obvious. Is this expression of your imagination based upon your own personal interpretation of Scripture (abbreviated here by many of us as YOPIOS) or is it supported merely by the traditions of (non-Catholic) folks?
You and I are siblings in Christ and, in traditional terms, we Catholics regard you as being among our "separated brethren." You are trying somehow to persuade us to YOPIOS. Well-catechized Catholics are quite resistant (and quite understandably so) to the attempts of those who do not share the fullness of our Faith to get us to trade-in the Mass, the sacraments and the teaching Magisterium, inter alia, for the "Scriptural" fad of the week.
I am posting as I am because you have been unusually persistent in your criticism of the Church to which I belong. None of this is personal but none is to invite you to offer your opinions as to the imagined shortcomings of my Church either.
When we squabble here over the differences which separate us as to doctrine and dogma, we do so for the entertainment of our enemies who are our Savior's enemies as well. In the world in which we live, we have not earned the right to so squabble in the public square. Let us vanquish our mutual enemies and those of our God. The and only then ought we to take our discussions to the public square for the entertainment of the heathens.
HMMMMM!!!!
#43 was written to you and I pinged the rest because they may be interested.
Hey super! Glad you have the right to think that way. A billion of us disagree with you, but when it comes to all things spiritual, we promise to go right on not telling you what to do. And we promise to do our best to ignore people like you when you tell us that your own faith is the only what that got it right. Its been working just fine for us for 2000 years now, and (for all its flaws) the Catholic Church continues to be the primary force of God on this planet. No matter how much that bothers you. Please go on practicing Christianity however you define it, and you have my word that no real Catholics will be coming along to tell you how you got it wrong. Don't worry: We accept that its too much to ask for people like you to return the favor.
In the News/Activism forum, on a thread titled Nineteen Catholic Senators Voted To Confirm Pro-Abortion HHS Nominee Sebelius , I thought I was enlisting support of Catholics to do the following:
1. CALL the Senate Catholics and let them know what they think of voting to confirm a pro-abortion nominee to HHS.
AND
2. I urged them to CALL their priest to provide some accountability (read:"discipline") against these pro-choice Catholic Senators. (see Mt 18:15ff)
Is there a problem with that?
BTW - there are apparently 26 Senators who identify themselves with the Roman Catholic Church. (source)
.
You might want to take a look at this: "An estimated 54% of Catholics voted for Barack Obama, despite the strong stand of over 50 heads of dioceses against candidates who support abortion. How did Obama successfully win the majority of the Catholic vote?" (source)
Which brings me back again to one of my original points, doesn't it?: This "says something about Catholics."
.
Get angry with me if you want. Fine. I have received 4/7 of the Catholic sacraments:
o Anointing of the Sick
o Reconciliation (confession)
o Confirmation Eucharist
o Baptism
No big deal. But I'm entitled to my opinion of the Catholic Church.
Why would that be a surprise when Brownback was caught red-handed working with her and Howard Dean to blame Bush for the "lack of federal response, or Katrina II" to the tornado that wiped out Greensburg?
It seems to have upset you, somehow ...
I merely urged folks who subscribe to various protestant ecclesial communities to examine the voting habits of their congresscritters (who greatly outnumber the Catholic congressthings) and ask their pastors to rebuke the pro-death senators in their communities.
It's not too much trouble for protestant pastors and protestants in general to rebuke pro-death protestants-in-name-only, now is it?
Get angry with me if it makes you feel better. Maybe it will spur you to action within your own community. In any case, I'm entitled to my opinion of protestantism.
Well said. I am Catholic, but I have spent a lot of time professionally working with Evangelicals. We agree to disagree on some issues, but we can work together on issues of importance to all of us, such as marriage, family, and the dignity of life.
So why fight and quarrel when we can work together on many important things without compromising our faith?
As for the gigantic Catholic Church not being the body of Christ, that really is pretty inane. Size alone is not an infallible indicator. But Cardinal Newman converted, in part, after it became evident to him that the Church of England could not be the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church, because it was too short-lived and too provincial.
I left the Episcopal Church for the Catholic Church in part for the same reasons. It just doesn’t make sense that this could be the one, true, universal Church. Of course there were other reasons as well, especially what appeared to me to be the grace of God and the Holy Spirit directing me ahnd calling me into the Catholic Church over the course of many years. But from a purely logical point of view, is the One, True Church of Jesus Christ likely to be limited to a single congregation, or to a limited coalition of congregations, in just one part of the world? And why do these purely Bible-based churches keep shifting and splitting and re-aligning all the time? There is much good in any sincere, Bible-based Christian church, but as you say, these are our separated brethren, who will be saved if they sincerely follow their lights but who certainly do not represent the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church of the early creeds, or the Bride of Christ as described in the Bible.
The Catholic Church is the Body of Christ, whether in Rome or anywhere else.
When you wish to join the Church, and Christ determines to bring you in, we shall indeed be brothers in Christ. Until then, my job is continue to point out the errant positions held by spurious groups, such as the RCC.
We are light years apart in our understanding of the Scripture and its story. That point also needs to be made public. Your group has an encyclopedic view of the message of the Bible, which explains some (but not all) of the wrong-headed claims found within FR posts. Further, they hold (with no substantiation other than themselves, I might add) that they and they alone are the repository of what all passages might mean. Yet another hallmark of the choke hold the group exerts on its victimized adherents.
No, sir/ma’am, we are not “separated brethren” for that would imply that there is a family to which we are remotely attached. The believers in Christ, chosen before the foundation of the world, held by His grace (not the chains of a “group”), clothed in His righteousness alone (not the flowing, golden robes of Rome) want nothing to do with that sacerdotal conglomeration of self-concocted doctrines from the darkness.
I thought you were going to ignore us.
The Biblical Gospel of Christ is at home in the Church He founded for us, the Catholic Church.
Are you testing a new tagline?
I think it's perfect.
That EVERYONE should contact their representatives in Congress. No problem, we agree. THIS story is about Catholic Senators. I made the point that a significant percentage of Catholics (both Senators and constituents) are NOT following their faith in their voting behavior, at least in terms of the issue of Life.
Which brings me to your second point. Although there are plenty of Christians who voted for Obama, the rate in my church was very low. More congregants in my church voted for Ron Paul (not me.) than for Barack Obama. This is a church of significant size and I venture to guess that 95 percent voted and 85-percent of them- voted for McCain.
Also, you assume too much when you accuse me of inaction. Believe me - you have no idea what you are talking about.
Finally, I believe the Roman Catholic Church is doing Satan's work. I know Catholics who are saved, indeed. But the RCC - as an organization is deceiving most of its adherents with a gospel of works that renders God's Grace to be of no effect (Rom 11:6, Gal 2 and Gal 3).
I'm not going to argue this point with you. You are offended by that statement. But I know too many people who are caught in the grips of this beast, they live in fear of its dogma, and will not learn the Truth for themselves. They are greatly deceived.
So I've said my peace. God bless those who fight the fight with you - but I won't do it publicly.
Also, (an afterthought...) Catholics (as a professed faith) hold the clear plurality in the Senate. 1/4th of the body. That's a serious voting block and that's what makes this article worth discussing.
Fascinating.
I believe you just committed blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.
I’ll say two “Our Fathers” and a good act of contrition.
LOL
When you develop an interest in understanding the Holy Scripture, let me know. Chest beating is cheap.
“The Catholic Church is the Body of Christ, whether in Rome or anywhere else.”
No its not - ALL the Orthodox churches agree that the Body of Christ exists with any congregation (group of Christians)- within a church or without.
Perhaps the Church of Rome will return to its Orthodoxy some day.
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