Posted on 03/21/2009 6:26:13 AM PDT by cowboyway
ATLANTA — In a cultural war that has pitted Old South against new, defenders of the Confederate legacy have opened a fresh front in their campaign to polish an image tarnished, they said, by people who do not respect Southern values.
With the 150th anniversary of the War Between the States in 2011, efforts are under way in statehouses, small towns and counties across the South to push for proclamations or legislation promoting Confederate history.
(Excerpt) Read more at courant.com ...
“Hard to argue with that”
None other than Ulysses S. Grant, the commanding general of the Union army for much of the Civil War and later a president of the United States, admitted he believed that if any of the original thirteen states had wanted to secede in the early days of the Union, it was unlikely the other states would have challenged that states right to do so. Grant also conceded he believed the founding fathers would have sanctioned the right of secession rather than see a war between brothers. Said Grant, “
“And you are still clinging to your Southern ones.”
None other than President James Buchanan admitted in his last State of the Union address that the federal government did not have the right to force seceded states back into the Union, and that framers rejected the idea of allowing the federal government to use force to compel the obedience of a state:
Buchanan also said that the Southern acts of secession were illegal.
“Here is the bottom line:”
No~ This is the bottom line
In Springfield, Ill., on July 17, 1858, Lincoln said, “What I would most desire would be the separation of the white and black races.” On Sept. 18, 1858, in Charleston, Ill., he said: “I will to the very last stand by the law of this state, which forbids the marrying of white people with Negroes.”
Lincoln supported the Illinois Constitution, which prohibited the emigration of black people into the state, and he also supported the Illinois Black Codes, which deprived the small number of free blacks in the state any semblance of citizenship. He strongly supported the Fugitive Slave Act, which compelled Northern states to capture runaway slaves and return them to their owners. In his First Inaugural he pledged his support of a proposed constitutional amendment that had just passed the U.S. Senate and the House of Representatives that would have prohibited the federal government from ever having the power “to abolish or interfere, within any State, with the domestic institutions thereof, including that of persons held to labor or service by the laws of said State.” In his First Inaugural Lincoln advocated making this amendment “express and irrevocable.”
Lincoln was also a lifelong advocate of “colonization” or shipping all black people to Africa, Central America, Haiti—anywhere but here. “I cannot make it better known than it already is,” he stated in a Dec. 1, 1862, Message to Congress, “that I strongly favor colonization.” To Lincoln, blacks could be “equal,” but not in the United States
You want to judge Lincoln by the standards of our times then fine. I know you Southron types too well to expect you to judge your own Southern leaders like Davis and Lee by the same standards. For if you did then you would be forced to admit that they were bigger racists than Lincoln was. But let me point out that in those debates that you quoted from, Lincoln was on record as opposing slavery and saying that the black man was entitled to the same fundamental set of rights as the white man, and that when it came to the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness then the black man was his equal. Can you point to a single quote by Lee or Davis or any other Southern leader of the same period which indicated that they thought the black man to be their equal in any way? That he was entitled to any rights whatsoever? Can you do that?
Lincoln supported the Illinois Constitution, which prohibited the emigration of black people into the state, and he also supported the Illinois Black Codes, which deprived the small number of free blacks in the state any semblance of citizenship.
I don't suppose you have any quotes from Lincoln supporting your claim do you?
Lincoln was also a lifelong advocate of “colonization” or shipping all black people to Africa, Central America, Haiti—anywhere but here.
Lincoln was along time supporter of voluntary emigration or colonization to Africa. But so was Robert Lee, who put his money where his mouth was and actually paid passage for some of his former slaves to Liberia. Of course the slaves in question had little choice. Under Virginia laws of the period they had 12 months in which to leave the commonwealth or they could be sold back into slavery.
Notice how the reality is all this arguing over secession, Yankee atrocities, ambivalence about Lincoln, Constitutional precedent, Radical Republicans worship, and nay even Biblical reference is all just collateral.
To the South bashers here who wish to deny us our rightful heritage and impose their revisionist views even as so self called “conservatives” that in the end it's only about race.
And not any race ...just the black race. The truth is irrelevant. It's only about the emotional hype of precisely whites enslaving blacks.
This obsession continues to damage our ability as a nation to solve most of the problems facing us and these revisionists here on this forum are enablers.
You can suck on that reconstruction edumacation all you want to, but you’ll never get me or my heirs to swallow it.
It’s hard to throw stones from a Glass house..Ain’t it?
I hear ya!
I was not talking about Richmond, I was talking about the murder of suspected bridge burners in Tennessee by Davis’s Confederate Gestapo. It was a whole lot safer to be a Copperhead opponent of Lincoln than to be a Dixie Unionist opponent of the Confederate New Order. In Dixie. the term habeas corpus too often meant release to the survivors of the victim’s corpse after homicide by the hands of the rebels.
A common flaw in southern political thinking is to get too hung up on ethnicity. Actions acceptable to "our guys" are despicable when committed by the other side. Jeff Davis and Cynthia McKinney may symbolize the politics of ignorance and division in behalf of different groups, but at their core their worldview was the same- "us versus them". I think I'll choose the ideals of universial freedom Lincoln and Reagan.
Well of course you won't. One, it doesn't fit your agenda. And two, the truth hurts.
Why?
The Confederacy would have voted for McCain?
There are no such thing as Dixie states.
The war is over. It ended before the invention of the light bulb and the car.
Get over it.
It seems Bush Derangement Syndrome is nothing new.
Lincoln Derangement Syndrome.
Same lack of reasoning. Same anti-American sentiments.
It is silly to place 21st Century mentality on 19th Century mentality. Lincoln shared the same racist views as probably all of white people in the nation. It didn't make slavery right. He knew that. He also knew preserving the Union was first.
But indulge in LDS all you want. It doesn't change anything.
“But I do note that in your entire post of attacking everything else, you haven’t stated one thing noble about the Confederacy.”
Still haven’t.
I guess you attack because you have no defense.
Still nothing to admire about wanting to form your own slave nation.
Gotta keep those darkies in their place, huh?
Really? There isn't? Then tell me why most farmers no longer own and use a common mule then? There is my answer on the matter. It is a liability because automation would have made it unprofitable and a monetary liability to own. The same way slavery died in Pre-Civil War north. As for the company store I mentioned? Most communities hit by this were white actually. Just your run of the mill Immigrant workers at first like the Irish etc. I'm old enough to remember seeing Coal Towns. Strip Mining and mining automation made company store Coal Towns a liability.
I hate to bust you're bubble on slavery as related to The Bible but it is allowed and GOD himself sent nations into it as judgment and to temper the people to his needs. There is also a very strict order GOD handed concerning the conduct of slaves and slave owners. The owners could not be tyrants.
I think all men should strive to be free. Personally I would never had wanted the responsibility of owning slaves. But the realities are slavery usually advanced the people enslaved due to adversity. No adversity? No growth. No Adversity? No God dependence. No Adversity? No tempering.
The best example of slavery was with the Jewish people aka the tribes of Israel. The wonders of Egypt is a testimony to their craft, knowledge, engineering, determination, and labor, not Egypt's. Just the same many of our nations inventors were black. They can be proud of their accomplishments and forefathers labor. But public education and Political Correctness teaches them to be otherwise.
I did speak up for the CSA. It had some of the most brilliant military leaders and planners the world has known. Many got no or very little recognition in history because or super leader status of mythical great leaders like Braxton Bragg over shadowed them. A few however did stand out like Nathan Bedford Forrest a man who's Battlefield strategies are still studied. In short the Union nearly lost the war. The CSA like it or not was far more in line with founders intent of what our government should be than Lincoln's Union.
Put the bottle down, it's embarrassing.
“Gotta keep those darkies in their place, huh?”
An Example of Northern White Hypocrisy
Kinda like the Northern New York City Draft Riots?
Clean your OWN back yard before you point that finger South
“But I do note that in your entire post of attacking everything else,
you haven’t stated one thing noble about the Confederacy.”
- - -
YOU started this cultural debate with your flippant post #6
and have been trying to defend yourself (poorly)
for the last 300 plus posts...
Nothing noble?
What about the men?
Men who would give up everything they owned;
everything they ever could own;
their families; their children; and even their lives;
to fight against an invasion from an army of superior force;
because they believed in the concept of “states rights”.
I am sad that there are not more of them here with us today.
The great war of northern agression was no more about slavery
than the revolutionary war was about tea.
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