Posted on 02/08/2008 3:57:52 AM PST by Man50D
Only months after a new state law effectively banned "mom" and "dad" from California schools, a total of 600,000 students could follow because of what has been described as the "repudiation" of 2,000 years of Christian morality, according to leaders of a new campaign assembling education alternatives.
The campaign is called California Exodus, and is being headed by Ron Gleason, pastor of Grace Presbyterian Church in Yorba Linda, who said while the country excels in social, economic, scientific and political accomplishments, it "gets low grades on the education of its children."
The issue is the state legislature's adoption of Senate Bill 777, which requires only positive portrayals of homosexual, bisexual, transgender and other alternative lifestyle choices.
"First, the law allowed public schools to voluntarily promote homosexuality, bisexuality, and transsexuality. Then, the law required public schools to accept homosexual, bisexual, and transsexual teachers as role models for impressionable children. Now, the law has been changed to effectively require the positive portrayal of homosexuality, bisexuality, and transsexuality to six million children in California government-controlled schools," said Randy Thomasson, chief of the Campaign for Children and Families and one of those who originally called for an abandonment of public schools.
"To rescue their children, loving parents need to find an alternative to government schools, and every church needs to make it a priority to help parents be in charge of their children's education again," he said.
He has condemned public school districts as "no longer a safe emotional environment for children" under the new law, signed by Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger, that will introduce children as young as kindergarten to the homosexuality and other alternative lifestyle choices.
(Excerpt) Read more at worldnetdaily.com ...
It’s all about Income Redistribution and centralized Power, not necessarily in that order.
That sounds about right. With a regular schedule, $40-$50 should be about right. That, supplemented with available parents should make the $3,200 per kid easily achievable for small groups.
Thank you for your statements and opinions. I don’t think that homeschoolers, private schoolers, and public schoolers are automatically enemies of each other, I don’t feel that any of those groups is “evil” (although there are problably a few evil individuals in each of those groups), and I don’t feel that the relationships between the 3 groups ought to be confrontational.
I don’t think anyone could say there aren’t problems in education, and public school parents and teachers are perhaps more aware of those problems than anyone...
But the situation in our schools is not the “fault” of any one group, and the system of local control in the United States means that schools in one part of the country aren’t necessarily like schools in another part, and schools in one district aren’t necessarily the same as schools in an adjoining district.
Teachers and other educators don’t have total control of the schools - they are also influenced by federal, state, and local politicians, federal, state, and local school boards, courts, and yes - parents. Our culture is a strong and largely unrecognized influence on the schools.
There are many problems, but as you’ve both said, the vitriol toward each other is uncalled for and counterproductive. Solutions aren’t found in name-calling.
I was wondering if someone would notice the technical difference between libel and slander. In ordinary speech, however, most use “slander” to refer to both. In any event, publishing (which can include the spoken word) statements with a reckless disregard for truth constitutes libel or slander in every jurisdiction I am aware of. SoftBallMominVA is publicly accusing people of lying or being deceitful without even the slightest basis for her comments.
FYI, I disagree with SoftBallMom on somethings, but I have never seen her post like that. Frankly, it strikes me as being out of character for her.
Metmom doesn’t disagree about the evil, I don’t think. Shew avoided that evil until her children were adults or nearly so. The lack of civility here isn’t the call of evil, it is the attacks against those calling the NEA system evil by those defending it.
Shortt's contention that a large majority of students leave the faith has been widely quoted on these boards (particularly by wintertime) but despite repeated requests, no source for those figures have ever been revealed, other than Shortt's letter or speech to the SBC.
It isn't slanderous, or even libelous, to question Shortt's claims when no data to back them up are ever produced. If you have access or links to the original data or reports, perhaps you'd like to produce those, so that the studies themselves could be evaluated?
FReepers on the whole pride themselves on being critical thinkers, and "Shortt said it, I believe it, and that settles it" doesn't really strike most of us as being very convincing.
It's obvious that Shortt's statement agrees with the ideology of some posters, but that doesn't mean it is actually factually true, and I doubt the study is rigorous enough to prove that exposure to the public school environment causes children to leave the faith.
I agree with you about the attitude that the teacher should be the sole determinant of the child's educational success, and I think most teachers do.
Elementary school teachers might have a bit more influence than secondary teachers do, but face it, we didn't have the kids for the formative years of their lives, and we don't have them for the majority of their time, awake or asleep - parents do!
It seems to me that the public has an almost pathological relationship with the schools at times, and a prime example would be what you pointed out -- who do we really want to be the primary influences on children?
And if the parents are the primary influences on children, can schools really be blamed for -- or expected to solve -- the major problems in our society?
I think we discussed the differences between the north and south at one point but maybe I’m wrong. Unions are huge here and even if one doesn’t join it, one pays at least 60/80% anyway in dues taken out of the paycheck and by not joining, one doesn’t get any backing at all and at times is harassed. I know.
I think you're correct about our previous discussions. We aren't required to join a union here, unions don't negotiate our pay, benefits, or working conditions, and basically unions have very little influence on the schools.
I don't think the discussions about sexuality would have entered the schools at all if they had not already permeated society at large...
It seems to me that frequently parents want schools to leave their own children alone, but be there to "fix" the children of parents who don't believe as they do...
When anyone makes a claim with such forcefulness and with ardor, it is their responsibility to produce the survey, study, and its methodology to back up the claims. No one from the SBC or Dr. Shortt has produced anything to support any type of figure other than a general 'this is what we think type of thing.'
Then you accuse me of slander (and BTW, I think you mean libel). In fact, while you ask me if I have any proof to back up my claim, in the very next paragraph you yourself question his statement, offering your opinion all while discrediting mine AND accusing me of slander in the process. So if is it 'slander' when I question the numbers, what is it when you question them?
This line of illogical thinking is very unlike anything you have posted in the past. I'll chalk it up to a momentary lapse and leave it at that, but I do hope it's temporary
The following is from the Wall Street Journal. (In my opinion a reputable paper. I do know that there are always Doubting Thomases demanding original sources, but for the rest of us, it should serve as a warning.
http://www.opinionjournal.com/taste/?id=110005335
HOUSES OF WORSHIP
Christian Teens? Not Very.
Many hold mushy beliefs antithetical to the creed.
BY DALE BUSS
Friday, July 9, 2004 12:01 a.m.
When I’m teaching Sunday school, I’m encouraged by what I hear from the teenagers at my evangelical Christian church in suburban Detroit. They seem to understand—and, more important, to believe—the bedrock tenets that will help them hew to orthodoxy throughout their lives and make them salt and light in the world.
But the hard numbers say otherwise. It turns out that, while they may profess the faith and indeed love Jesus, the vast majority of Christian teenagers in this country actually hold beliefs fundamentally antithetical to the creed. The forces of moral relativism and “tolerance” have gotten to them in a big way. In fact, some leaders believe that mushy doctrine among the younger generation ranks as the No. 1 crisis facing American Christendom today.
About one-third of American teenagers claim they’re “born again” believers, according to data gathered over the past few years by Barna Research Group, the gold standard in data about the U.S. Protestant church, and 88% of teens say they are Christians. About 60% believe that “the Bible is totally accurate in all of its teachings.” And 56% feel that their religious faith is very important in their life.
Yet, Barna says, slightly more than half of all U.S. teens also believe that Jesus committed sins while he was on earth. About 60% agree that enough good works will earn them a place in heaven, in part reflecting a Catholic view, but also flouting Protestantism’s central theme of salvation only by grace. About two-thirds say that Satan is just a symbol of evil, not really a living being. Only 6% of all teens believe that there are moral absolutes—and, most troubling to evangelical leaders, only 9% of self-described born-again teens believe that moral truth is absolute.
“When you ask even Christian kids, ‘How can you say A is true as well as B, which is the antithesis of A?,’ their typical response is, ‘I’m not sure how it works, but it works for me,’” says George Barna, president of the Ventura, Calif.-based research company. “It’s personal, pragmatic and fairly superficial.”
Some commentators produce even more startling statistics on the doctrinal drift of America’s youth. Ninety-one percent of born-again teenagers surveyed a few years ago proclaimed that there is no such thing as absolute truth, says the Rev. Josh McDowell, a Dallas-based evangelist and author. More alarmingly, that number had risen quickly and steadily from just 52% of committed Christian kids in 1992 who denied the existence of absolute truth. A slight majority of professing Christian kids, Mr. McDowell says, also now say that the bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ never occurred.
“There’s a greater disconnect now than ever in the history of the church in America between what a Christian young person says they are and what they actually believe,” says Mr. McDowell, who has ministered mainly to youth for more than 30 years. “Christianity is based on truth; Jesus said, ‘I am the truth.’ But you have an overwhelming majority even of Christian kids saying there is no absolute truth.”
Catholics have noticed the trend as well. A few weeks ago, in fact, Pope John Paul II specifically warned several U.S. bishops about the “soulless vision of life” that seemed to be overtaking America, urging them to “confront directly the widespread spirit of agnosticism and relativism which has cast doubt on reason’s ability to know the truth,” especially among youth.
Indeed, the consequences of this theological implosion now pervade the thoughts and actions of believing teenagers, following the moral breakdown of the broader American culture. Here’s one practical example: Only 10% of Christian teens believe that music piracy is morally wrong, according to a recent Barna survey, not all that different from the 6% of their non-Christian peers who feel the same way.
Then extrapolate the situation to other possible big-picture results. Nearly 60% of evangelical Christian teenagers now say that all religious faiths teach equally valid truths, according to Mr. McDowell. It’s bad enough that they seem to have been co-opted by relativism from within our culture and even from within the church and family. But it’s even more disconcerting to realize that we’re relying on this generation for the future defense of Judeo-Christian civilization against the highly motivated forces of militant Islam.
Perhaps it’s counterintuitive to believe this problem is as severe as that outlined by Messrs. Barna and McDowell. After all, we’re told that spirituality is de rigueur among youths these days and that Christianity is right up there. But this zeitgeist largely reflects a pseudo-faith that is fed by a steady diet of pop-culture feints, from the allegorical “Lord of the Rings” movies to the T-shirt that recently adorned Pamela Anderson saying, “Jesus is my homeboy.”
The kids in my Sunday School class really do understand that. It’s their peers I’m worried about.
Mr. Buss is a journalist and author in Rochester Hills, Mich.
Oh sure it did!
In a discussion about the inferiority and problems associated with public education, a public school teacher, defending the system, made a public post, potentially read by tens of thousands of people, defending her profession, which is to EDUCATED, omitted proper punctuation in three sentences of a five sentence diatribe that blamed parents for the problems in education.
So I indeed added something. I highlighted the fact that you either you don't understand proper punctuation, or you do not understand the concept of proofreading your work before posting your opinion on the quality of public school teachers for the whole world to see.
Not a ringing endorsement on the level of professional knowledge and training of public school teachers.
Speaking as the husband of a public school teacher I'd say you should be more careful in the future.
Oh, and don't blame the messenger. That is a pretty pathetic defense mechanism.
“Metmom doesn’t disagree about the evil, I don’t think. Shew avoided that evil until her children were adults or nearly so. The lack of civility here isn’t the call of evil, it is the attacks against those calling the NEA system evil by those defending it.”
Well..I hadn’t read through many of the last posts prior to PINGING you...
I pinged you only because METMOM PINGED you so I didn’t want to “leave anyone out” who had been active in the discussion.
I see now, after reading your posts, that you believe that public education is evil. You also believe it is organized child abuse. You also believe that it is an evil error..
I, however, was agreeing with METMOM that this thread..and so many, MANY of the other education threads has deteriorated into an unproductive mess.
I have expressed a desire to be able communicate with education professionals from the private/public and homeschooling arenas in order to benefit my sons.
Is it wrong to want to do so?
Is it wrong to bristle at the FACT that I KNOW if I ask a question regarding curriculum/sports/activities for my children that question will be used as fodder to bash public education?
Is it wrong to be frustrated with the FACT that I respect homeschoolers/ private schoolers and am frequently not afforded the same respect? Additionally, it is implied that I abuse my children by sending them to public school...also, that I participate in child abuse by working at public school?
I will continue to be frustrated by the barrage of insults hurled at those involved (as parents/professionals or both) in Public School.
I will continue to wish that there was a place (such as an online, conservative forum) where I could communicate with private/public/homeschoolers regarding curriculum/sports/activities....
I will continue to think that FR should be such a place.
That being said, I find your post to have at least two errors. You say "which is to EDUCATED." That should read "which is to educate" or "which is education."
"Not a ringing endorsement on the level of professional knowledge and training of public school teachers." is a fragment. The sentence lacks a subject. There is also a stylistic error in your second paragraph with unbalanced sentences, but that is a more advanced topic and I'm not sure of your command of the English language. Perhaps you were never taught more advanced composition, so I neglected to point out more than the very basic problems.
As the husband of a public school teacher, you need to watch your posts so as to not look uneducated. It reflects badly.
That was Choice!!!
It would be lovely to have a safe place to ask questions, one where folks with expertise could share without holding back for fear of gloating and accusations from others.
Guess I can wish, huh?
Seriously, it WOULD BE!
I work in Special Education.
I am what’s called a Transition Specialist.
Fancy title that simply means I help the older Special Need’s Student get ready for life after high school.
In whatever areas the help is needed. This could mean budgeting, agency connections, addressing graduation announcements, passing an English Skill’s course/Math Course/Science Course...you name it.
Also, I spent YEARS at the primary level teaching reading.
I now have to normal -bright children.
I find myself surprised at how quickly the grasp things!
LOL!
I am so used to the special needs child that sometimes my oldest son will say things like, “Mom, I GET IT!”
I break things down too far...I OVER-EXPLAIN...I allow for too much time etc...
So..when I hear a well informed group (like the homeschoolers here) discussing some kind of GREAT MATH curriculum...I am just dying to ask questions about it!!
When I see public teachers discussing their English classes I want to find out more.
It used to be that I could do so...when my son was just in Kindergarten I had some discussions with a few homeschooling moms about HYPER BOYS and it was awesome!
I also took a few of their ideas to our Kindergarten teacher and she was VERY receptive!~
I can’t recall if those conversations occurred in the open forum or via FReepmail..but I KNOW that either way I wouldn’t have been worried to have the discussion in a public thread.
Anyway...I will continue to wish as well...
Oh, and I also remember a conversation with a homeschooler who knew I had taught elementary reading support....I suggested the SRA Reading Mastery Program and also Reader Rabbit!
LOL!
I later found out that some homeschoolers use a Reading Mastery program offshoot that condenses the regular Reading Mastery Program..
What a GREAT discovery that I later used for a few high school students!
I had a 6th grade girl reach grade level reading this week. She has improved 3 grade levels since August. After we crunched the numbers everyone cheered, she hugged me and started crying because she was so happy. We had a party the next day and as she left she whispered to me, "For the first time, I don't feel dumb." I started crying then. It was the sweetest moment I've had in a long time. It was a good thing :)
I’ve learned about several different programs and websites from home schooling folks. They can be awesome resources for special education teachers because they are also teaching to a small group. What works with their group, should work with mine.
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